RH450 + RS210 - Not Loud Enough
 

Hi Folks

Hoping someone can help me out here..

Yesterday I played a gig with my band. We're a blues rock / garage rock band. The Stooges meets Dr Feelgood. Simple set up - Me (bass), 1 guitarist, 1 drummer and 1 singer. Just the 4 of us.

We played a small-ish bar/club that holds approx 200 and it was half full.

I played a MusicMan Big Al SSS 4 string through a TC RH450 and 1 cab (RS210). The Big Al was on Active and pretty much high up on most controls. The RH450 was on max gain (without red light flashing constantly) and the master volume was all the way up. Tube Tone was also up to about 9 O'clock and other EQs were mostly at either 1 or 2 O'Clock. The tweeter control on my RS210 was halfway at 12 O'clock.

The guitarist plays a Fender Telecaster (that has a hot rail) through a Fender Blues Junior Red October and he's loud. Very Loud!!!

Our drummer is also very loud!!

None of us were mic'ed up so we were all relying purely on our amps and drum kit.

Could I be heard above the drums and guitar? No.

I really thought with my rig I could stand up to the others but I couldnt. The rig lacked volume and punch.

This has now led me to the following questions

1) Was this an amp issue? Should I trade in my RH450 for an Orange Terror Bass 500 or MarkBass Little Mark III or GK MB500?

2) Was it a cabinet issue? Was 1 cabinet simply not up to the job? If I had added either a 2x12 or 1x12 from TC would this have sorted this issue? Or perhaps with just 1 cab you need to be mic'ed

3) Or are TC cabs just not that great and should I look at using my RH450 with different cabs altogether such as Bergantino??

Can anyone assist here?

All I want is a gigging rig that gives me plenty of punch but doesnt break my back lugging it around. I dont want an 8x10 fridge.

Thanks
Lloyd

An additional cab would probably give you a greater change in volume then replacing either your cab or head with similarly sized/powered units. Another of the cab you exact cab you have(assuming you like the sound) would be the prudent decision.

did this just start or have you used that set up before and it was ok then??

as for the amps you mentioned.....I played through a LMII and III and you will not have a problem being heard with that. in fact if you turn it to to half volume you'll be too loud in a small bar setting

I play through a PUMA 900 and a 12/6/1 cab (and sometimes add a 12/sub) and I have NEVER had to turn up past 11 on the gain and 9 on the main to be heard above the crowd.
If I am running my BigAl5 or Bongo4 I usually run them at about 2/3 volume on the bass controls. I also run an FEA DualBand Comp to even the notes out.

There is no replacement for displacement

IMO, your issue is almost entirely with the cabinet here. While some are more capable than others, most (all?) single 210s aren't going to do what it sounds like you're asking.

If that's going to be a typical scenario, I'd say go for a known-to-be-loud 410.

I've used a single RS210 and a pair of RS210s. As said above, you'd move ahead by adding another RS210. My personal nod would go to a very capable 410 though.

And this is going to be a pick two because you can't have all three choice between light, loud and inexpensive.

You only have ~240w of power to play around with, more speakers is the answer. A second or third 8 Ohm 210 is the solution if you want to add to what you already have.

If you like the tone of your RH450 get a 2nd, bigger, or different cab. If it's still not enough volume/headroom tell the guitar player and drummer to turn it down. If that's not a viable option maybe consider another head. RH750?

A single 210 usually won't cut it IMO for most club gigs. I personally like to feel the bass not just hear it.

Oh, and while I still think you need a cabinet solution to you issue, are you using a saved preset(s)?

If so, check your preset level. In shift mode, the Tubetone control is the level for the preset. I'm suspecting you have that dialed back somehow.

The 750 has the same ~240 watts of power that the 450 does. The voicing may help him cut through better, but he really needs more speakers.

I believe both of those amps are fine running three 8 Ohm cabs, so running three matching 210's would net him the most volume.

How about adding just a RS112?
 

Hi guys

Wow. Thanks for your quick responses. In shift mode the tube tone was all the way up by the way.

Ill think Ill stick with my RH450 as I now believe this may have been a cab issue based on your feedback as opposed to an amp issue.

How about just adding an RS112 to my existing RS210. Would that still do the job? Or would I be better off going straight to the RS212 as the addtional cabinet.

Im still hearing lots of good things about the Bergantino cabs too.

Cheers
L

The only can I would recommend you pair with your existing cab, is a matching 210 cab.

M6 Carbine is quite possibly the greatest amp on earth.

+1.

The RS210 is a great cab IMO, but there's only so much a single 210 can do.

Definitely check your preset levels. Or add a RS212. ;)

TC Response
 

Here is TC's response...

The first thing I would recommend is you try to re-position the the amplifier. Get the cabinet off the ground 2-3 feet, this will help get your sound out a bit better and you'll also be able to hear yourself better.

If you still feel you need to get more volume out if your RH450, adding a second cabinet will definitely help. This will bring down the impedance to about 4 ohms and also give you a couple more drivers to help disperse the sound. In this case you can have up to 3 RS cabinets on your existing setup. Adding an RS212 will go a long way in helping this.

If you are playing with a heavy drummer and a loud guitar(15-20 watt tube amp move allot of air especially if the tone is dirty), getting your bass tone out there can be a challenge, especially when you are not lining out to a PA.


And here is the clip of my gig.... as you can see the guitars and drums are very loud

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6yUX6-IoOQ

As mentioned, you simply need more speaker surface area.

A single 210 can be great for many things but keeping up with a loud drummer, a loud guitarist, and trying to carry the whole room on it's own is asking a lot.

I truly can't imagine how loud your band must have been because I've been gigging for a couple of years now at small and medium sized club (mostly with no FOH) with the exact same set up without any volume problems.

Yeah get another RS210. Then you will be getting the full wattage out of your amp and you will be pushing twice the amount of air. Also, you should stack them vertically so that the drivers are closer to your ear. I can't imagine that rig not being able to be heard over that Fender amp (isn't it only a 1X12?).

Hi

Get a 4x10

Rob

Another vote for more speakers, it's amazing the difference it makes. Also another vote for matching speakers