RH450 + RS210 - Not Loud Enough

[pedro]

Originally Posted by B-string

There can be exceptions to anything but a Pro knows (or should know) to place his faith in the house. That way the best possible group balance will be out front (where the people paying the bills are).
In the last few decades of high SPL PAs anyway.

Most clubs around don't provide 'house'.

[pedro]

Originally Posted by B-string

If the gig is small enough you don't need a huge rig now do you?

Well it didn't seem that the OP was playing a particularly large place which is why I was asking.

[DougD]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

On stage you may not hear it. Try listening 25 feet away from your rig.

As i said in my post, i never heard it on stage OR in the audience. I do occasionally go to see other people play The most earth shattering rig I've heard was a 410/118 (only the vocals went through the pa). Almost made me soil mysef

[B-string]

Originally Posted by pedro

Most clubs around don't provide 'house'.

None around here do. That is why I own a capable PA system and have a strip labeled "Bass" for large indoor or outside gigs. In my case more for balance than output needs (also saves my hearing on stage).

[pedro]

Originally Posted by B-string

None around here do. That is why I own a capable PA system and have a strip labeled "Bass" for large indoor or outside gigs. In my case more for balance than output needs (also saves my hearing on stage).

Well the band does have a PA and we put everything thru the PA except for the bass. I've never had any problems at all being heard nor hearing myself and I use the same rig as the OP. All of that leads me to believe that perhaps its something other than the amp that's causing the problems. Perhaps 'some' of it is unreasonably loud band mates although I watched some of the video and I didn't get the impression that they were totally out of control. I'm not very technical but perhaps its an EQ thing or something acoustically odd about that particular venue.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by pedro

Well the band does have a PA and we put everything thru the PA except for the bass. I've never had any problems at all being heard nor hearing myself and I use the same rig as the OP. All of that leads me to believe that perhaps its something other than the amp that's causing the problems. Perhaps 'some' of it is unreasonably loud band mates although I watched some of the video and I didn't get the impression that they were totally out of control. I'm not very technical but perhaps its an EQ thing or something acoustically odd about that particular venue.

This is real possibility IME. A second 210 in this case would have helped with "perceived" volume if not actual balance out front (with attention payed to EQ out front, not what you would like to hear on stage).

[pedro]

Originally Posted by B-string

This is real possibility IME. A second 210 in this case would have helped with "perceived" volume if not actual balance out front (with attention payed to EQ out front, not what you would like to hear on stage).

BTW I meant that the EQ problems might not just be with the bass but also with other bandmates.Sometimes keys player and/or guitarist set their eq's in such a way that it clouds up the mix. Just a thought.

[Bass_Pounder]

Originally Posted by DougD

As i said in my post, i never heard it on stage OR in the audience. I do occasionally go to see other people play The most earth shattering rig I've heard was a 410/118 (only the vocals went through the pa). Almost made me soil mysef

The question is though, do you know what you would be listenening for ?

Just about any two cabs together sound better then one alone.

[bwoodman]

Get another 210 cab. I've been playing thru a pair of SWR style 210 cabs for almost 20 years now - usually stacked vertically - plenty of volume for most situations.

[arai]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Well lets look at the arguments:

Power handling discrepancies:

Not a problem I guess with either the 750 or 450. 236 watts isnt going to push those cabs hard enough to damage them.

I know you said this as another dig at tc . But when you think about it, it's actually quite comforting. A loud amp that sounds great(subjective) and you don't have to worry about blowing drivers. Win!

[B-string]

Unless you prefer and have the ability to control your own dynamics, then it is a fail.

[arai]

Originally Posted by B-string

Unless you prefer and have the ability to control your own dynamics, then it is a fail.

Comments like this make me think you have obviously not played one of these amps.
I have a lot and I have heaps of dynamics. Also worth a mention is most of the transient peaks it limits are so fast the human ear wouldn't pick up on them. So even if they were there you wouldn't know

[B-string]

Well you assumed incorrectly. I will not assume that you have not played/gigged a wide range of SS and Tube amps and will believe this amp is your personal choice.

[arai]

Originally Posted by B-string

I will not assume that you have not played/gigged a wide range of SS and Tube amps

I have not made any comments for you to assume either way. But your smarmy comments are noted

[Musicman20]

Guys. Please keep the anti TC wattage arguments to one side...players like it and don't care if you don't dig it!

I often think those who sit going on about the scientifically correct cabinets to use clearly need some more rock n roll in dirty clubs...trust me no one cares at those gigs!

Most of the players who I envy create their tone from choosing what that like with their ears. It's music, and to me it has to stay a little away from science otherwise the fun is gone.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by arai

Comments like this make me think you have obviously not played one of these amps.
I have a lot and I have heaps of dynamics. Also worth a mention is most of the transient peaks it limits are so fast the human ear wouldn't pick up on them. So even if they were there you wouldn't know

Originally Posted by arai

I have not made any comments for you to assume either way. But your smarmy comments are noted

My mistake?

[Downunderwonder]

OP has enough rig for party function gigs and even a decent bar gig. Drive the dancefloor and let the room chitchat. Everybody is happy, get asked back, profit.

Where was your cab in relation to the walls?

One thing you can do is paradoxical but it works: mic the guitar amp. Turn it around and aim it up directly at guitarist's head. He will have to turn it way down. If you can get him to use a stand, the closer the cab to his ears the better.

Drummer naturally hears himself better, hopefully learning to "play" his drums instead of bash them.

[arai]

Originally Posted by B-string

My mistake?

I am not sure what you are trying to achieve here, but trolling springs to mind

Originally Posted by B-string

Unless you prefer and have the ability to control your own dynamics, then it is a fail.

That's a comment that lead to my assumption. If you had experience with this amp you would know this is untrue. Like I said I have a lot of dynamics.

[Downunderwonder]

OP has no headroom for any dynamics at present, let's concentrate on that.

I know he has enough watts and speakers because my 250W with swr jr aces such gigs. It's not like it's a stellar cab, amp is idling, lows are trimmed but cab is always well placed.

[arai]

Originally Posted by Downunderwonder

OP has no headroom for any dynamics at present, let's concentrate on that.

I know he has enough watts and speakers because my 250W with swr jr aces such gigs. It's not like it's a stellar cab, amp is idling, lows are trimmed but cab is always well placed.

The general consensus of this thread is he needs more speakers. And the amp is not the problem