Rickenbacker w/ SVT4 EQ'ing and settings

marantz10 · #1 07-29-2011, 10:22 AM

Hey guys,

I play in a band where we have two guitarists playing thru big tube amps (one of them is a Triple Rec by Mesa for example). I am playing my Ric 4003 that I got about a month ago, a Tech21 VT Bass pedal, an Ampeg SVT4-Pro and an SVT-810E cab. We play in a studio with all kinds of sound dampening sheetrock and sound absorbing foam on the walls. We are constantly having issues with the low mids giving everybody headaches but if I don't have it turned up that loud, I have a hard time hearing what I'm playing. I have issues both with and without earplugs. Recently, I discovered if I turned the mids down on the VT bass and the mids (with frequency selector at #1) on the Ampeg, I created a solution for this problem BUT... now my tone sounds like Geddy Lee's modern day rig and I really can't stand the super high pitched distortion when I was going for a warm tone. Before I got the Ric, I used to use a Jazz bass and everybody liked how that tone sounded and wasn't over filling their heads with low mids and bass.

Settings I have my VT Bass pedal set to: the suggested settings for the SVT style sound (boosted bass and highs, lowered mids although not as much as recommended since I like the distortion on the mids).

Settings I have for the SVT4-Pro: boosted bass, slightly boosted treble, mid practically all the way down with frequency selector set at 1. Ultra Lo, Ultra Hi and Ultra Bright are all off. EQ is off for several reasons which I can explain if anybody cares.

Has anybody had any similar problems with their Rickenbacker and too many low mids that drive your bandmates insane? I love the warmth that I can get from my VT bass and Rickenbacker but this sound that I like is driving everybody nuts!

craig.p · #2 07-29-2011, 01:13 PM

Replied via PM.

JimmyM · #3 07-29-2011, 01:40 PM

This isn't the answer you want to hear, but I'd just go with the Jazz.

marantz10 · #4 07-29-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by craig.p

Replied via PM.

Thank you, PM in short mentioned of Ric needing a lot of EQ'ing and possibly some special arrangements on the bass itself. (to not leave the crowd wondering: talking about the cap for the bridge pickup being a nuisance when output just the bridge pickup)

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

This isn't the answer you want to hear, but I'd just go with the Jazz.

Yeah, that's where the band is pushing me to go. They don't want to see me go that direction since they know I spent a pretty penny on the Ric but they have been pushing me to hurry up and find ways of making the Ric work.

I'm still going to look into it some more. I'm convinced that I could at least get a Jazz sound out of the Ric just so I'm happy with holding a Ric on stage...

Buster Brown · #5 07-29-2011, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marantz10

Hey guys,

I play in a band where we have two guitarists playing thru big tube amps (one of them is a Triple Rec by Mesa for example). I am playing my Ric 4003 that I got about a month ago, a Tech21 VT Bass pedal, an Ampeg SVT4-Pro and an SVT-810E cab. We play in a studio with all kinds of sound dampening sheetrock and sound absorbing foam on the walls. We are constantly having issues with the low mids giving everybody headaches but if I don't have it turned up that loud, I have a hard time hearing what I'm playing. I have issues both with and without earplugs. Recently, I discovered if I turned the mids down on the VT bass and the mids (with frequency selector at #1) on the Ampeg, I created a solution for this problem BUT... now my tone sounds like Geddy Lee's modern day rig and I really can't stand the super high pitched distortion when I was going for a warm tone. Before I got the Ric, I used to use a Jazz bass and everybody liked how that tone sounded and wasn't over filling their heads with low mids and bass.

Settings I have my VT Bass pedal set to: the suggested settings for the SVT style sound (boosted bass and highs, lowered mids although not as much as recommended since I like the distortion on the mids).

Settings I have for the SVT4-Pro: boosted bass, slightly boosted treble, mid practically all the way down with frequency selector set at 1. Ultra Lo, Ultra Hi and Ultra Bright are all off. EQ is off for several reasons which I can explain if anybody cares.

Has anybody had any similar problems with their Rickenbacker and too many low mids that drive your bandmates insane? I love the warmth that I can get from my VT bass and Rickenbacker but this sound that I like is driving everybody nuts!

Ah...perhaps I can give you a hand here...

I was having a slight problem playing my Ric through the SVT4Pro also. I LOVE the tone through the HSVT-CL but when played through the 4 Pro, it just didn't "hit" me. Like you, I added the VT bass but to my surprise, it seemed to get worse..

My solution to the problem was fairly simple. I went back to the old tried and true KISS model - "Keep It Simple Stupid". I ditched the VT (on the 4Pro) and EQd using ONLY the controls on the 4Pro (Bass - Midrange - Treble) I do not use the Graphic EQ but I turn it on and run it flat.

Last night my drummer was the first to tell me that the Ric was "really coming through with the lows" as opposed to last week when I was told that my Precision was killer compared to the Ric......now, I am hard pressed to tell any measurable difference between the two.

Hope this helps a little!! Good luck to you!!

Ric5 · #6 07-29-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marantz10

We play in a studio with all kinds of sound dampening sheetrock and sound absorbing foam on the walls. We are constantly having issues with the low mids giving everybody headaches but if I don't have it turned up that loud, I have a hard time hearing what I'm playing.

YOU ALL NEED TO TURN DOWN!

Then the guitarists need to get rid of the 4x12 sealed speaker cabinets. Those things are low mid monsters. They should play through 1x12 combo amps. 35 watts should be plenty. Next there is no way you need an 8x10 svt in a studio. GET A SMALLER AMP

Remember you are in a STUDIO ... you are not playing a concert.

Once you get used to playing quiteter then the music will get tighter and the vocals should get better. Then when you play out you can still get by with small amps if you have a big pa.

Actually you can still use the big amps if you all just TURN DOWN.

RickenBoogie · #7 07-29-2011, 03:42 PM

I agree, it seems you're all too loud. Also, +1 to ditch the VT, and run the amp eq flatter, with boosted mids instead of lows.

Buster Brown · #8 07-29-2011, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric5

YOU ALL NEED TO TURN DOWN!

Then the guitarists need to get rid of the 4x12 sealed speaker cabinets. Those things are low mid monsters. They should play through 1x12 combo amps. 35 watts should be plenty. Next there is no way you need an 8x10 svt in a studio. GET A SMALLER AMP

Remember you are in a STUDIO ... you are not playing a concert.

Once you get used to playing quiteter then the music will get tighter and the vocals should get better. Then when you play out you can still get by with small amps if you have a big pa.

Actually you can still use the big amps if you all just TURN DOWN.

+1

Addendum to my response above....there is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER any need for loud volumes in a studio - NEVER. It is NEVER necessary. Period. End of story.

That's why, in addition to my road rigs, I have the MarkBass CMD 121P. Takes the guess work out of it. I would highly encourage you to get a smaller combo for studio use.

And, as Ric5 said (and he is absolutely correct) :Once you get used to playing quiteter then the music will get tighter and the vocals should get better. Then when you play out you can still get by with small amps if you have a big pa.

Happy Face · #9 07-29-2011, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buster Brown

+1

Addendum to my response above....there is NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER any need for loud volumes in a studio - NEVER. It is NEVER necessary. Period. End of story.

And, as Ric5 said (and he is absolutely correct) :Once you get used to playing quiteter then the music will get tighter and the vocals should get better. Then when you play out you can still get by with small amps if you have a big pa.

It took me a long time to accept this wisdom, but it is true.

MOTORHEADBANGER · #10 07-29-2011, 09:05 PM

I'd say the biggest problem is how loud you are playing in the studio. No matter how nasty your tone is, it should not be physically painful to the band. I wouldn't doubt if the guitarists' amps aren't also partially to blame. 4x12's tend to be very mid heavy. I say turn it down, and suck it up. No more headaches and at a lower volume you may have an easier time dialing in your tone without all the noise.

Randall · #11 07-29-2011, 09:28 PM

Try not boosting the bass.
Mids are where a lot of the ric character lives so boost those to taste.
Choose another mid switch setting. You can also use your graphic to see if you can lose that offending mid bass frequency-that might even be your cab?. A good Ric should have lots of "smooth deep" bass with both pups and tone full up.

marantz10 · #12 07-29-2011, 11:00 PM

So I went into our studio (without the band) and started messing with a few knobs.

What I discovered is the muddy tone was mainly caused by the VT bass pedal. I turned it off, and also found the bridge pickup sounds best at this point. With this ampeg svt4-pro amp and this setup, I was able to achieve a perfectly awesome sound. I walked around the room with volume BLASTING to make sure the tones weren't defining to make sure the rest of the band would be okay. I ended up keeping the mids on the amp turned down and have the bass boosted quite a bit and the trebled turned up as needed. (around 1:30ish if I recall right). So far, the VT bass pedal missing doesn't kill my tone. I thought I'd be missing it more. Clean this Ric's bridge pup sounds great with the SVT4 all on it's own. The KISS method is a giant secret here. The Ric seems to be a sophisticated instrument that is temperamental with situations and other gear. Luckily I have you guys for checking this stuff out.

Thx!!!

MOTORHEADBANGER · #13 07-29-2011, 11:04 PM

Yeah Rics can be picky. Also I think the VT does more when not effected by an amps eq. I've never liked my VT into the input jack of an amp. It always sounds too brittle even when the heads eq is messed with. Bypassing the preamp though always sounds great.

marantz10 · #14 07-29-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MOTORHEADBANGER

Yeah Rics can be picky. Also I think the VT does more when not effected by an amps eq. I've never liked my VT into the input jack of an amp. It always sounds too brittle even when the heads eq is messed with. Bypassing the preamp though always sounds great.

I suppose I could mess around with doing that... Wonder what I'll get?!?

Sartori · #15 07-29-2011, 11:25 PM

With my metal bands, what I usually do is play only on the bridge pickup and boost the crap out of the mids. If it sounds too thin, turn down a bit of treble.

If you want to get really scientific about it, you can try to find out what frequencies your guitarists are boosting, and what they're cutting. Then on your rig, boost the frequencies they're cutting, or the least boosted frequencies in their sound.