RS210 wiring

samvanlan · #1 10-11-2011, 02:06 PM

Hello - I just acquired a tc electronic RS210. It does not have the coaxial speaker+horn. I am wondering what impedances I need for the coaxial and for the horn. I measured the existing speaker with my multimeter and got 11 ohms. So I am wondering if that is the DC resistance and the speaker is actually 16 ohms? Also, based on a wiring diagram I saw for a 2x10+tweeter setup, it seems like I need a horn that is "at least 1/4 the impedance of the regular speakers". So at least 4 ohms. I read a bass gear review article that measured the output of the RS210 to be 10.5 ohms....So my questions are:
- Does anyone know how the rs210 is wired?
- Does anyone know the impedance of the coaxial speaker?
- Does anyone know the impedance of the ASD1001 horn?

Thanks for any help you can offer. Sam

Rick Auricchio · #2 10-11-2011, 02:11 PM

I suspect your best bet is to contact TC for a replacement coax speaker. There will be very few replacements available over-the-counter.

It appears that the remaining driver is a 16-ohm model (because DC resistance is usually lower than impedance, as you say.)

The BGM article measured impedance, not DCR.

will33 · #3 10-11-2011, 02:15 PM

Your meter readings would make them 16ohm speakers you'd wire in parallel to make an 8ohm cab. The ASD1001 is an 8ohm hf driver. You'd have to either buy the 16ohm coax speaker or just mount a separate tweeter in the cab if you want one.

samvanlan · #4 10-11-2011, 02:18 PM

OK, thanks Rick. Thats a start. TC electronic seems to have slow customer service.....as Ive contacted them and have not heard anything. I'll have to be patient. Anyways, it would still be great to have some hard data on this RS210 to see if I could acquire the speakers myself (cheaper too I am sure). OK, thanks for any continued input. Sam

samvanlan · #5 10-11-2011, 02:20 PM

ahhhh, also good info, Will. Thanks. Sam

will33 · #6 10-11-2011, 02:31 PM

I get it now, you only have the one driver in there. They'll be an oem thing you'd have to get from TC. They use eminence drivers but there isn't a stock 16 ohm coax version that would match the other driver.

tombowlus · #7 10-11-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samvanlan

- Does anyone know how the rs210 is wired?

The photo on page 67 in issue #6 may be of some help.

samvanlan · #8 10-11-2011, 02:45 PM

OK, great feedback, Will. So somewhat of an aside: I just called Eminence and the phone answered with a real person (a nice receptionist)! And then she transferred me to tech and again, it was answered by a real person who was very helpful but was sad to inform me that they wouldnt make me a one-off 16 ohm coax.......I had to ask. They just made me loyal to them. Anyways, I worry about the cost of the OEM from TC.......+ shipping to Alaska almost always hurts.

It would be nice to know how they wired this thing (parallel, series-parallel combo) because I dont understand why the output is 10.5 ohms (as measured by credible people at bass gear review) of the two 10" speakers are probably 16 ohms?

samvanlan · #9 10-11-2011, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

The photo on page 67 in issue #6 may be of some help.

Great magazine! Really, the tech stuff in there is so great. It helped me examine this RS210 that I bought last night to make sure all was well with the wiring etc. Thanks.

will33 · #10 10-11-2011, 02:49 PM

The 10.5 number from BGM is some sort of average or something (Tom can correct me there). Your 11ohm reading for one driver would put a pair of them in parallel at about 5.5 ohms DCR and would be considered an 8ohm cab.

samvanlan · #11 10-11-2011, 03:46 PM

OK seem right to me too, but the way I see it is they really are 16 ohm impedance and so 16 ohm+16 ohm+8 ohm(?) horn = 4 ohm output if in parallel or 16+16 = 8 ohm in parallel and add in series the 8 ohm horn = 16 ohm (is that right?).......maybe the horn is 4 ohm = total output of 12 ohms ~ 10.5 ohms? What do you think? OK thanks. Sam

will33 · #12 10-11-2011, 04:37 PM

The horn is filtered and won't affect the "ohm rating" of the cab. It plays up where the woofers don't so it'd be 8ohms in the woofers bandwidth and 8ohms in the tweeters bandwidth. Basically an 8ohm cab with or without the tweeter.

samvanlan · #13 10-11-2011, 04:41 PM

ah hah, good to hear. Makes life simpler. Thanks Will.

samvanlan · #14 10-11-2011, 05:18 PM

OK sorry another question: Would it be bad for the crossover (or horn) to use an 8 ohm coaxial speaker? Would it blow one of the caps or resistors in the crossover? Is there a way I could calculate the right cap/resistor combo in the crossover or is it just plain illegal to put a 16 ohm with an 8 ohm with a crossover/horn setup? Sam

will33 · #15 10-11-2011, 05:33 PM

Depends if it's a true crossover or a highpass filter. Most bass cabs just have an hpf for the tweeter with the woofers getting a full range signal. If that's the case with your TC, the filter will be setup for the 8ohm ASD1001 hf driver and would work on about any 8ohm tweeter. If the woofers have a straight line to the jack (no lowpass components) you could use any impedance drivers you want. If there is a lowpass filter, it will be calculated for the correct 16ohm woofers. In that case, putting 8ohm drivers in there could damage the speakers, the amp, or both.

That said, if you do change it to 8ohm drivers (4 or 16 ohm cab) replace them both, you don't want different spec drivers operating in the same space. If there really is a lowpass filter, you have to change all those parts too. Pretty much putting together a whole new cab except for building the box. Internal volume and port tuning would also have to calculated in order to select decent replacement drivers. Much easier to just buy a different cab, or buy the one replacement for this one from TC.

samvanlan · #16 10-11-2011, 06:44 PM

Here is the RS210 crossover, just for the heck of it. Sam

will33 · #17 10-11-2011, 06:57 PM

There is a coil there but it looks pretty small, could be a 3rd order filter for the tweet. Trace the wires the 10's hook up to and see if they pass through that coil between the speaker and the input jack. No coil = no lowpass filter.

BassmanPaul · #18 10-11-2011, 08:41 PM

If you don't get the OEM driver you pretty much HAVE to change out the existing driver as well. That has already been posted. Installing non OEM drivers will leave you with having to identify drivers that will work well in that cabinet. You'll have to model the cabinet in a box design program to find out what will work. All else will be a crapshoot.

samvanlan · #19 10-12-2011, 12:24 AM

Thanks for the info. Do you remember if the posts on OEM/existing drivers was a RS210 specific thread or general to all cabs? I'd like to read it. I've searched around but no luck so far. Anyways, the bottom line is I am now humbled to realize that OEM is my only reasonable way to go, as Will33 also stated. Thanks a million for all the solid feedback. Sam

Rick Auricchio · #20 10-12-2011, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samvanlan

Thanks for the info. Do you remember if the posts on OEM/existing drivers was a RS210 specific thread or general to all cabs?

I believe that discussion---and many others---is generic for any cab.

When building a bass cab, one starts with the driver specs and then designs the cab around the driver(s). But people always think they can install a replacement driver that isn't the same as the original one. Doing so is a crapshoot, because you'd probably have a mismatch between cab and driver. Possible risks are bad tone, suboptimal loudness, and even driver damage.