Running directly into the PA: Good things to have?

[Thrill-House]

So after playing through my band's new drummer's PA with good results, ive decided to simply skip getting an actual bass amp and go directly to the PA's instead. I know there are various pros and cons to this, but i think in my case the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. At this moment, the drummers PA cant stay at our rehersal space, i want my own PA anyway for various reasons. So, im looking into getting some things for this kind of set up.

First, i will need a PA. a Local shop has PA package that includes a Phonics Powerpod 780+ powered mixer and 2 15" PA speakers. The Mixer is 600 watts... or 300 watts per speaker. Will this be a suitable PA to use in a practice space with a drummer? Will it be suitable for small - medium sized venues? (Most places around here seem to have their own PA, but im just wondering in case i come across a gig with no PA at all.) Also it should be noted that the vocals will be going through this PA as well as my bass.

Next, What are some things i should have when playing through a PA? I have searched around and some have suggested a preamp. Is an actual preamp needed, or will a good EQ pedal or rack EQ such a the Boss EQ-20 (which i have) do the job? Is there anything else you guys would suggest?

[rpsands]

What's your budget?

I use a pair of BFM Jack 12's for my practice PA and it's more than fine. I run electric drums, vocals and bass through it. Using a Fostex VF16 through a cheap arse power amp.

If I were going to plan out my own personal practice PA, I would buy the following:
-a 6 input or so behringer mixer
-a crown XTi 1000
-a PA package from Leland @ Speakerhardware or one of his associates: Two BFM Jack 10's or OTOP 12's and one of Leland's 4 cubic foot 3015LF subs

Here's what I use for all my direct-only gigs:
-Behringer PB1000 pedalboard
-BBE OptoStomp compressor
-MXR M80 direct box / distortion
-TC Electronics PolyTune tuner
-Behringer Bass chorus

[plangentmusic]

A MXL cable and a line out on the back of your amp. Everything else should be a part of your rig.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by Thrill-House

Next, What are some things i should have when playing through a PA?

Very good monitors, otherwise neither you nor the band are going to be able to hear you.

[rpsands]

If you're going to be using your PA for playing out live, you will want monitors of course. For practice, I just aim the PA at us in what would be the backline and it works just fine. I know that's not genius but it works OK

[scottbass]

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

A MXL cable and a line out on the back of your amp. Everything else should be a part of your rig.

What's an MXL cable? The only MXL I know is a brand name for low-end microphones. I assume you meant to type "XLR" instead of "MXL"?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Very good monitors, otherwise neither you nor the band are going to be able to hear you.

+1 This is the thing that most don't realize. Without good monitors AND an individual monitor mix, backline (or in ears) is a must. Without that, guess what, you need backline (i.e., your bass amp). And you need a SUPER high end monitor to sound as good as a decent backline amp.

[rpsands]

If you have good subwoofers, it does not take much monitor to sound great. Subs are omnidirectional and a good monitor engineer will let them do the work and let your monitors do the meat of the signal.

I've used little crappy 10" monitors for bass numerous times; if the sound guy's on his game it sounds good, if he's not it sucks.

The best game in town for monitors is W8's in my opinion -- Bill's design is epic. You can do two powered w8's for under 500 bucks with ease.

That said: For a practice PA, you do not need monitors (except maybe for vocalists). Just line it up with the guitar amps and pretend you're the audience. I've been doing this for ages and it works great.

If you're going to use the PA for playing out, then you need monitors.

[rpsands]

Side note:

One thing I considered doing for my home PA was doing monitors and subs only (my home 2x3015LF subwoofer, two W8's and two W10s). I think this could work out great, and I have done similar setups with wedges in the past.

[mcapote]

Originally Posted by rpsands

Side note:

One thing I considered doing for my home PA was doing monitors and subs only (my home 2x3015LF subwoofer, two W8's and two W10s). I think this could work out great, and I have done similar setups with wedges in the past.

im going with 2 fearful 15subs and 2 jack10s through a XTI2000, may grab a xti1000 and run a couple more jack10s or wedgehorns(not sure cause they are bigger than the jacks) as monitors. think that will suffice for practice and gigs.

[rpsands]

That's going to whomp For gigging, you might want to get a couple W8's for monitors. They're cheap to build and around 200 bucks to have built, ballpark.

[Samsound]

You got a lot of feedback on monitors; I'll touch on signal "conditioning".
Things I've used successfully on an active bass:
ART Tube Preamp (or similar) to add some color, warmth, or drive.
POD (guitar or bass) to add some grit

Currently using a Fishman Bass preamp/DI which I really like. I set bass knobs flat, dial in a basline on the Fishman, adjust compression and depth to taste, then make tonal changes for each song using just the bass controls.

[Thrill-House]

thanx for the advise guys. Im going to look into getting some good monitors. Right now though, im just concerned that i might not have enough power to keep up with a loud drummer. Would the PA i mentioned in my original post be sufficient to compete with a somewhat loud drummer? i want to make sure i have enough power to let my bass be heard clearly along with the guitar and drums, both through the monitors and the main speakers.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Thrill-House

thanx for the advise guys. Im going to look into getting some good monitors. Right now though, im just concerned that i might not have enough power to keep up with a loud drummer. Would the PA i mentioned in my original post be sufficient to compete with a somewhat loud drummer? i want to make sure i have enough power to let my bass be heard clearly along with the guitar and drums, both through the monitors and the main speakers.

Volume-wise, you should be fine. Another thing to realize is that playing directly through a PA speaker results in LOTS of top end sizzle with a bass. Very few PA speakers have horn attenuators, and also have those bigger horns crossed over a bit lower than a typical small bass cab tweeter. That's why many 'rock' bassists or 'old school' bassist like their old school rigs mic'd into front of house versus going direct.

[jgroh]

Originally Posted by KJung

Volume-wise, you should be fine. Another thing to realize is that playing directly through a PA speaker results in LOTS of top end sizzle with a bass. Very few PA speakers have horn attenuators, and also have those bigger horns crossed over a bit lower than a typical small bass cab tweeter. That's why many 'rock' bassists or 'old school' bassist like their old school rigs mic'd into front of house versus going direct.

+1

I played some gigs recently in some small bars/clubs where I just went through the PA and didnt bring my amp and cab. There was alot of high end sizzle coming out of the PA and I had bad monitor mixes each time. If I didnt barely hear the bass out front, I wouldnt have heard it at all (and I stand in the back!) After those gigs I decided that I would bring my amp and at least a 2x10 so I, and my bandmates, could hear me onstage.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jgroh

+1

I played some gigs recently in some small bars/clubs where I just went through the PA and didnt bring my amp and cab. There was alot of high end sizzle coming out of the PA and I had bad monitor mixes each time. If I didnt barely hear the bass out front, I wouldnt have heard it at all (and I stand in the back!) After those gigs I decided that I would bring my amp and at least a 2x10 so I, and my bandmates, could hear me onstage.

+1 The other 'issue' is that most 'all in one' lower end PA's have limited EQ, and the EQ they do have is typically not 'bass guitar optimized'.

Playing through a high end PA with a good direct box can be a wonderful experience if the sound person knows what he's doing and has enough EQ, hi pass filters, etc. to make a bass tone tight and punchy through those extremely widely voiced systems. Also, in the VERY rare occasions where I played without backline and had both good quality monitors, my own mix, and large side fills so that I could hear and feel the bass, it was amazing (happened twice in my almost 40 years of playing).

Most other times, I use my own backline or supplied backline for personal and stage monitoring, and hope for the best out front with the sound guy.

[SteveC]

I've been talked out of doing this many times. It seems to be very logical, but it just doesn't work unless you have a lot of money to throw at it. To get good monitors you really need to spend a lot of $$$.

I have PA support almost all the time. I still use an amp. It's a combo, but it works fine as a "monitor" for me and the band, and I have something for practice and smaller non-PA gigs.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 This is the thing that most don't realize. Without good monitors AND an individual monitor mix, backline (or in ears) is a must. Without that, guess what, you need backline (i.e., your bass amp). And you need a SUPER high end monitor to sound as good as a decent backline amp.

+1. REAL good monitors. Otherwise you & your band hear the fart symphony. I played San Francisco's Golden Gate Park with a 1x15 Polytone 101. The side fills had JBL 15"s. It was the best sound I'd ever heard. Sounded like my combo was huge.

An amp is part of my sound and the band's so I'll have one up there.

[Syco_bass]

In this situation I use good in ear monitors and a line 6 bass floor POD. (we've used this exact setup at my church for the last 10+ years and works great) The floor pod allows me to select the Amp model and cab I like and allows me to eq and compress as needed without needing a good sound guy. If you have good speakers and a sub you'll be fine. You can get decent in ear monitor amps from "rolls". They are not wireless, but can outfit your whole band for less than $50 each plus the cost of the ear buds. I have 5 of these for sale for $100 shipped if you are interested. (we've since gone wireless) Just PM me and we can talk if you are interested.

Good luck.

[chadds]

Also my groups whether they are in duo form or full blown quartet mode balance acoustically and require a PA for enlargement of the sound only.