Running a STV-VR with an 810 and a 410HLF

[rmkesler]

I have a gig coming up with the three piece group I'm in and the guitarist/singer has asked if I could run another bass cabinet on his side of the stage. I have a 410hlf that I could run in conjunction with my 810 but now that I'm looking at it I'm wondering what the best way to hook them both up would be.

Should I run a speaker line into the 810 and then from the 810 to the 410?

Since there are two 1/4 speaker outs should I just run one cable to each cabinet? And if I did run it this way would I need to switch the impedance to 2 ohms since I'm running two 4 ohm cabinets. I would think so but I'm not exactly sure how that works.

Not sure if one way is better than the other, or if it make any difference, but my gut feeling is that the second option may cause problems with mismatched cabinets.

[Sartori]

You would need to switch the impedance switch over to 2 ohms, yes.

However, I don't think that this is necessarily a good idea. For one, you'll be using two very mismatched cabs and so may encounter some phasing issues.

Secondly, it's not actually a very good idea to split low end sources like that. I think it causes... what is it... comb filtering?

[christw]

Run a line out/preamp put/fx send to a practice combo pointed at his head to act as a bass monitor. No mismatched cabs or anything else to worry about in that case!

[Gearhead17]

Originally Posted by christw

Run a line out/preamp put/fx send to a practice combo pointed at his head to act as a bass monitor. No mismatched cabs or anything else to worry about in that case!

That is a great idea! Practice cabs are generally lighter too and less bulky than the 90 something pound 410hlf.

Also, the 410hlf and the 810e are using the same speakers (if manufacturing has not changed them since the early 2000's), so in this case, the resulting pair might just work well. You also have to consider that you will be putting half of your power into the 810e and the other half into the 410hlf. This would severely limit your available headroom for your stage tone. Might be a non issue though.

[JimmyM]

They actually don't use the same speakers. They're similar but the HLF speakers have a deeper back plate so they go lower and don't fart out on the ultra low frequencies. Or something like that...Jerrold once explained it in detail and that's what I got out of it. Plus the impedances are different.

[oinkbanana]

in a few threads i've seen a few people question the reliability of using the 2ohm tap on the svt.
is this something people should actually worry about?
does it wear down the tubes faster? (keeping the settings the same)

[RickenBoogie]

No, it's abosolutely fine to run the amp @ either 2 or 4 ohms, so long as the load matches the tap.

[rmkesler]

Okay, let's go back a step. If it were two 810s, how should it be connected?

[JimmyM]

2 ohms, both connected to the head directly.

[rmkesler]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

2 ohms, both connected to the head directly.

Thanks Jimmy!

[AlexanderB]

I find the whole "mismatched phase" thing somewhat exaggerated here at TB. Anyone that understands how to read Win ISD and similar tools quickly realise that it not THAT much of a problem for most users. (Pairing a reflex loaded X x 15" to a reflex loaded Y x 10". The bass roll off and tuning frequenies are often not that different.)
Then there are of course better or worse matches...

In reality the different maximum output / power handling for the resp. cabinets is more important to look for when pairing cabs. Especially with the ever more powerful amps available that can push the speakers into destructive excursion. Not much use in pairing up a modern 410 that takes 300W across the normal bandwith to a low power 115 that reaches Xmax at 50W in the lows. At least as long they are hooked up to the same power amp channel.

In this case there are actually issues to expect, both due to combining a sealed and a reflex loaded cabinet (that in this case have very different response curves) and also due to positioning of speakers on the stage.

The suggested "bass combo close to guitar player" is probably better and also gives more tonal control to the guitar player. Keeping that amp close to him will also mean that its low SPL will probably not reach you to affect the bass sound where you stand.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by AlexanderB

I find the whole "mismatched phase" thing somewhat exaggerated here at TB. Anyone that understands how to read Win ISD and similar tools quickly realise that it not THAT much of a problem for most users. (Pairing a reflex loaded X x 15" to a reflex loaded Y x 10". The bass roll off and tuning frequenies are often not that different.)

You don't realize it until you have something to compare it with, like a band or a matched cab rig.

[AlexanderB]

Well Jimmy, my point is more that a large selection of the commercial 410 bass reflex cabs are pretty similar in terms of box tuning, roll off point, impedance curve, phase plot etc. (Esp. since these parameters are interrelated.)

Many 212 and 115 are also pretty close to a regular 410 in terms of phase response. Sealed boxes, horns, TL etc is a different story.

The more apparent mismatch is quite often the sheer output capability or powerhandling between a mediocre 115 and a good 410. Limits of the weaker box will limit the whole setup if powered from the same amp.

[tarafran]

So if you are too loud on the singer's side and he ask you to turn down ,you are ready too loose your sound on your side ?
I think not
take the advice of a second amp in line .best If you had a EON 15 or any self power speakers
Francois

[tarafran]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You don't realize it until you have something to compare it with, like a band or a matched cab rig.

Yes try to compete with mismatched cabinet when you have a double bass drum and 2 full stack plexi marshall cranked all the way on the other side .then you might understand phasing problems
Francois