Schroeder 115L+

[RS]

Originally Posted by Eublet

There is a HUGE discprency between the sounds of these Schroeder cabinets. You really have to specify which model you are referring to when you describe the tone, or ask a question regarding the sound of a model.

The 15+L is not mid forward at all. It's very even sounding, but it doesn't have a deep low end. Extremely tight and punchy, but from there on up it's very even. Crisp top end also. It's worlds apart from those 1212 or 1210 Schroeder cabs. The BMF cabs are more old school sounding as a contrast. They're just all over the place, which is cool because Jorg gives customers a lot of options. So unlike in times long past, there is no more "Schroeder sound" IMHO.

Agreed, my experience.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Eublet

There is a HUGE discprency between the sounds of these Schroeder cabinets. You really have to specify which model you are referring to when you describe the tone, or ask a question regarding the sound of a model.

The 15+L is not mid forward at all. It's very even sounding, but it doesn't have a deep low end. Extremely tight and punchy, but from there on up it's very even. Crisp top end also. It's worlds apart from those 1212 or 1210 Schroeder cabs. The BMF cabs are more old school sounding as a contrast. They're just all over the place, which is cool because Jorg gives customers a lot of options. So unlike in times long past, there is no more "Schroeder sound" IMHO.

+1 in that the baffle Schroe's sound way different than the 15L+ (as do the newer 'non baffle' models from what I've been told and read in reviews). However, mid forward does not particularly mean 'bumped in a particular area of the mids'. The original little 15L+, with that big driver crammed in that little box, has a primarily midrange response, hence the description of 'mid forward'. However, you are correct that it is a very 'even' midrange response (from upper bass through lower treble IMO), versus the big low mid bump and huge upper mid dip of the original baffle mounted cabs.

I was very impressed with the little 15L+... sounded great on the gig. I only moved away from it after the 'super 12's' started to emerge, which gave me the same volume capability as the 15L+, the same 'even' tone, but much more true bass (i.e., that 'even tone' extended through a wider frequency range).

[Eublet]

I'd agree Ken. The lack of low end in the 15+L made it sit very aggressively in the mix. It jsust doesn't have that box-y, nasal'ish tone of the those earlier cab designs that Jorg is mostly known for it seems.

[bucephylus]

Ken, The only confusion I have with your "mid-forward" description of the 15+L is that I don't hear any significant increase in what I would think of as "true bass" coming out of the AE212. In fact, after very minor Eq'ing, I find the 15+L and AE212 to be more similar than not. Which is cool with me because I like what they both do.

I do find the AE212 moves more air around than a single 15+L; but two of the 15+L's is a significant step up from the AE212. Also, the two 15+L's to my ear develop a bit more perceived heft in the low end. As I mentioned earlier, I am boosting lower mids (250 Hz to 350 Hz a bit into all of the cabinets with pretty much equal success.

BTW, I have used the 15+L very satisfactorily for upright jazz dates. I get exactly the LaFaro type sound out of them that I like. So, they may be lacking "true bass," but I don't find that character to be a detriment in any of the gigs I'm doing.

[loopee]

Understood....you are right.....I'm talking about the Mini12+L but 2 in. taller so making it a larger box for more air to push it.......would the Streamliner go with that Schroe?

QUOTE=Eublet;12479220]There is a HUGE discprency between the sounds of these Schroeder cabinets. You really have to specify which model you are referring to when you describe the tone, or ask a question regarding the sound of a model.

The 15+L is not mid forward at all. It's very even sounding, but it doesn't have a deep low end. Extremely tight and punchy, but from there on up it's very even. Crisp top end also. It's worlds apart from those 1212 or 1210 Schroeder cabs. The BMF cabs are more old school sounding as a contrast. They're just all over the place, which is cool because Jorg gives customers a lot of options. So unlike in times long past, there is no more "Schroeder sound" IMHO.[/quote]

[KJung]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Ken, The only confusion I have with your "mid-forward" description of the 15+L is that I don't hear any significant increase in what I would think of as "true bass" coming out of the AE212. In fact, after very minor Eq'ing, I find the 15+L and AE212 to be more similar than not. Which is cool with me because I like what they both do.

I do find the AE212 moves more air around than a single 15+L; but two of the 15+L's is a significant step up from the AE212. Also, the two 15+L's to my ear develop a bit more perceived heft in the low end. As I mentioned earlier, I am boosting lower mids (250 Hz to 350 Hz a bit into all of the cabinets with pretty much equal success.

BTW, I have used the 15+L very satisfactorily for upright jazz dates. I get exactly the LaFaro type sound out of them that I like. So, they may be lacking "true bass," but I don't find that character to be a detriment in any of the gigs I'm doing.

I can see that. Again, I'm a BIG fan of that little cab. I never used two, so can't comment there. I was never able to push anywhere near the low end extension out of the 115L+ versus the AE212 (as an example, I typically run my F500 with the AE2120 with the Filters off and about a 3db cut using the 40hz shelving, and a bit of a boost at 1K or so since the AE212 is so smooth up there). To get a similar tone with my 115L+, I set the EQ flat, but engaged the VPF at around 10 o'clock, which primarily changes the ratio of lower mids in favor of true bass.

I agree though, the response of the 115L+ is nice and even within its range, I just find that range a bit constricted down low. That being said, that restricted low end can sound GREAT in a lot of rooms and a lot of mixes, and the volume output of that cab is wonderful.

[Eublet]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

Ken, The only confusion I have with your "mid-forward" description of the 15+L is that I don't hear any significant increase in what I would think of as "true bass" coming out of the AE212. In fact, after very minor Eq'ing, I find the 15+L and AE212 to be more similar than not. Which is cool with me because I like what they both do.

I do find the AE212 moves more air around than a single 15+L; but two of the 15+L's is a significant step up from the AE212. Also, the two 15+L's to my ear develop a bit more perceived heft in the low end. As I mentioned earlier, I am boosting lower mids (250 Hz to 350 Hz a bit into all of the cabinets with pretty much equal success.

BTW, I have used the 15+L very satisfactorily for upright jazz dates. I get exactly the LaFaro type sound out of them that I like. So, they may be lacking "true bass," but I don't find that character to be a detriment in any of the gigs I'm doing.

I had an AE212 for a while myself. It's been a while since I had either of these cabinets, and they weren't here at the same time, but from memory the AE212 to me definitely had more extension down low. It seemed to be more felt than heard in a sense. Not sub-like, but just some heft down there that could cause some vibration. The 15+L didn't really do that. It was all punch. I actually favored the low-end of the 15+L over the AE212. I would think that two of them would trump the AE212 with ease as you'd get some nice coupling that would provide a bit more low end extension, and those two huge drivers would move all kinds of air. In the end the AE212 was just a bit to bland for my tastes. If it had a little bit of low-mid bump it would have been the ultimate cab for me.

[bucephylus]

Well, I'm sure a lot of this perception depends on the instruments we are all using and the tonal objectives. And, surely, there are some differences.

These cabs are great for the bass sounds I am going for.

[spike42]

Thought I'd update this thread so I could give props to Jorg for outstanding customer service.

I've got a 4 Ohm 15L+, purchased from a TB'r awhile back. I'd had a Mini 12L+ and liked it very much.
Thinking that if some is good more must be better, I sold the 12 and bought the first 15L+ that presented
itself. I was really happy with the cab, right up till it developed a rattle. After checking for loose screws and
the like, I emailed Jorg for his opinion. I was surprised when he said that it sounded like the driver was blown.
I hadn't pushed it hard at all, particularly when compared to some of what I'd asked my Mini 12
to do in the past.

Of course I'd bought the cab used, so there was no warranty expected. And Jorg
tactfully said that since it was used, I have no way of knowing for sure what the
previous owner may have subjected it to.

[As an aside, I've done plenty of other deals with the seller and I trust him 100%. I
really don't think this cab was thrashed]

What really pleased me was that Jorg set all that aside, and immediately offered to
sell me a proper replacement at a very good discount. His concern was that I be happy
with the cab. I gratefully accepted and he sent the replacement driver promptly.

So here's where things get a bit weird: upon receiving the new driver, I carefully
installed it. Making sure to seat it properly on the gasket, crosstightening the screws,
etc. When done, I eagerly connected my amp and tried it out at low volume. Imagine
my surprise when I heard the same rattle that I'd had to begin with. Huh? Took the
cab over to a friend's place, same rattle with his amp. I had to email Jorg again.

Now, I really felt bad having to do so.....I mean, I'm just some guy with a cab I
bought used, and who'd already been treated real fair. Jorg sounded a mite
skeptical at first (can't blame him for that), but then said perhaps the speaker got damaged in
shipping and he would send me another. Next day I get another email
that he sent me out a replacement after testing it himself in a 15L+. I actually
thought that was a nice touch - protects him and also I feel good about the incoming
driver.

Upon arrival, I installed the replacement being just as careful as the first time, if
not more so. Plug it in, turn it on - viola! There's my Schro sound that I'd been missing!
I was able to use the cab a couple times over the weekend and I'm just so happy to
have it available again. I was equally happy to update Jorg with a good result. Great
vendor with a great product and service to match - I'm a definite fan!

[JxBass]

Good story. I had a similar great experience with Jorg when I bought my 15+L. I purchased it from Musicians Friend as a return in "Like New" condition. When I received it it sounded like it had a blown speaker. Before returning it to MF I contacted Jorg, telling him it was an MF return, to see if there was something simple he could suggest to solve the problem. He had me ship the cab to him, after which he replaced the speaker AND applied a new coat of Duratex, both at no charge, then shipped it back to me on his nickel.

Perhaps my all time greatest customer service experience.