sealed 15 + mid

[rogypop]

Hello everyone! I have an idea of a more up-to-date sealed cab using high xmax subwoofer type 15 and powerful 8 midrange. Just to make it clear in the beginning, I´m not looking for lot of extension, neither low of high, just an old school juicy tone without phasing and dispersion issues. There was one simmilar product on the market, a berg nv215 but sadly it is no longer avilable.

I belive that sealed cabs with their slow roll off starting relatively high are much better in live situations cause big lows of low voiced vented cabs are prone to cause a lot of phasing issues on stage and in front while interfering with foh. I know it´s possible cutting or boosting any frequency in the spectrum, provided you have a good Eq section, but many good amps eq´s are too rudimentary to precisely control the whole spectrum, think of almost all tube amps or any ss with fender tone stack based pre, such inexpensive, powerful and great sounding hartke LH series.

Winisd says eminence definimax 4015 lf in something like 2 cu ft box will do -3 db at 65 hz and -6 db at 53 hz.
For mids, i think of eminence delta pro 8a in separate sealed enclosure, crossed over at 400 hz.
I know the system is relatively inefficent compared to some of todays offerings but hey, watts are cheaper than ever.

I´m still getting used to winisd alpha version so please chime in and tell your opinions!

[rpsands]

The 3015LF is actually not too bad for a sealed box.

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by rpsands

The 3015LF is actually not too bad for a sealed box.

I´ve had that one on radar but here in central Europe it´s impossible to find.

[will33]

That definimax is a hell of a woofer. Have you modeled the Legend cb158? It also works sealed but would start to rolloff a bit higher although gradually. How much power you intend to run with this? The legend would let you crossover higher, it's also nearly 1/2 the price over here anyway, don't know about over there. Good performance but not at the level of the Dmax.


The definimax LF is up there close to 3015lf performance, the drawback is needing a lower crossover point.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by rogypop

I belive that sealed cabs with their slow roll off starting relatively high are much better in live situations cause big lows of low voiced vented cabs are prone to cause a lot of phasing issues on stage and in front while interfering with foh.

That's a common misconception, and it's not true. Model the 4015LF in 2 cu ft sealed tuned to 30 Hz and you'll see the roll off is virtually identical to 2 cu ft sealed. What differs is it has higher sensitivity below 100Hz, but more important higher Maximum SPL, 4dB higher at 50 Hz, which is dBs you may not ever need but if you don't have them available you'll never be able to use them should you need them. The only disadvantage to the vented cab is larger net volume, as you have to include that required for the ports and ducts, and its sizable. But smaller, and a lot less expensive, than a second cab.

The definimax LF is up there close to 3015lf performance, the drawback is needing a lower crossover point.

I'd go 800-1kHz with either.

[will33]

So the definimax doesn't sound a little peaky up there as the chart would suggest? Would have to check the datasheet again but I thought 1k was nearing the top of it's usefullness.

[will33]

Well, it takes a dive at 1k but the peaky stuff doesn't look as bad as it first did at a glance. It seems though like passing at 600 would tame the little peak a little more level, then really get out of the way of the mid.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by will33

So the definimax doesn't sound a little peaky up there as the chart would suggest?

No worse than most, better than many. And it's not like this is a PA application.

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by will33

That definimax is a hell of a woofer. Have you modeled the Legend cb158? It also works sealed but would start to rolloff a bit higher although gradually. How much power you intend to run with this? The legend would let you crossover higher, it's also nearly 1/2 the price over here anyway, don't know about over there. Good performance but not at the level of the Dmax.


The definimax LF is up there close to 3015lf performance, the drawback is needing a lower crossover point.

Hi will! I haven´t took legend in consideration cause i need something that will survive the pounding from bridged hartke lh 1000, at 8 ohms i think its around 750w.

[will33]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

No worse than most, better than many. And it's not like this is a PA application.

Perhaps I worry a little much about bumps in that area, it is to my ear, the honky/nasal region of a bass. Above body and fullness, below cut through, definition etc. Unfortunately, it's a common crossover point for good reasons. Easy to make not happen going 2nd order both ways and flipping the leads on the mid. A little more confusing using a 3rd order highpass. What do you do, just move the hp north a little?

[will33]

Originally Posted by rogypop

Hi will! I haven´t took legend in consideration cause i need something that will survive the pounding from bridged hartke lh 1000, at 8 ohms i think its around 750w.

Then you would benefit from the definimax, especially using one cab.

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

That's a common misconception, and it's not true. Model the 4015LF in 2 cu ft sealed tuned to 30 Hz and you'll see the roll off is virtually identical to 2 cu ft sealed. What differs is it has higher sensitivity below 100Hz, but more important higher Maximum SPL, 4dB higher at 50 Hz, which is dBs you may not ever need but if you don't have them available you'll never be able to use them should you need them. The only disadvantage to the vented cab is larger net volume, as you have to include that required for the ports and ducts, and its sizable. But smaller, and a lot less expensive, than a second cab.


I'd go 800-1kHz with either.

Hi Bill! I know that it is possible to emulate the sealed cab response with low tuning but i really dont need that big low end and I´m planning tu use it as standalone all the time.
One more thing, which midrange would you use to cross it that high? (no sealed backs)

[dog1]

I would also go with the 3015LF with a higher crossover point. I would avoid the subwoofer.

[rogypop]

Originally Posted by dog1

I would also go with the 3015LF with a higher crossover point. I would avoid the subwoofer.

Well, 3015 lf is one big, fat sub

[JGR]

I've been looking at similar things and the 4015 is a good candidate for a sealed design; it's just expensive and heavy, but I don't see too many other choices for sealed applications, and like you, I want something that can take a pounding. Keep an eye on the sensitivity of the mid you are going to match it up with. You should put it in it's own chamber unless you are using a closed back mid.

[Sartori]

What drivers were Bergantino using in the NV215?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by rogypop

which midrange would you use to cross it that high? (no sealed backs)

Faital Pro W6N8 120.

[rpsands]

I just don't get what everyone likes about that Faital 6. The charts make it out to give up so much sensitivity over the 6nm410 or 605nd that you'd need two to get that loud. The ~2-3db of padding either of those mids warrants with the 3015LF gives you a huge margin of safety in thermal power handling as well.

I'm sure it sounds lovely and it is available and not terribly expensive, I guess.

I've heard the 6PR150 in the flesh and it's a damned nice speaker. Definitely a better sensitivity match, and its off-axis performance is a bit more consistent (e.g. not as many dips that don't correspond to actual response).

[tom-g]

Originally Posted by rogypop

I´ve had that one on radar but here in central Europe it´s impossible to find.

Look here: thomann.de

[Oobly]

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