Seemingly low volume

[pejsaboy]

Hi all! Been lurking for a while, and have found lots of good information around the forums here. Now I've got something I can't exactly search for that I could use an answer to.

Thursday I had my second practice with the (three-piece) band I'm currently in. I don't have a ton of experience playing in a band setting, nor with equipment in general. Anyhoo, I play a cheaper, passive Dean Edge 4 string bass through an SWR Workingman's 2x10C. I don't have an extension cab for it yet, but 260 watts seems like it should be pretty beefy with the lows cut pretty heavily. We practice in the guitarists' garage, and our drummer doesn't play all that loud. My buddy (the guitar player) runs a 50 watt B52 combo amp, and hardly cranks the gain or volume. Now, here's the thing- With gain and master at about 3:00 I can definitely hear myself. The problem is I have to play so hard to get that volume that I'm nearly popping the strings (as in slap n pop). I'm not playing slap n pop, so I'm putting out what seems to be far too much effort to get the volume that I am. As a result, it's sloppifying my technique as I've always played with a pretty light right-hand technique.

I've been making sure that I'm not clipping the amp (watching the red LED), and I haven't even seen it briefly light up once. So it seems like I still have headroom in the amp. I've got the limiter knob fully counterclockwise, but not defeated, so I should be getting full volume. I use to have the limiter set at 12:00, but that's the only thing I've changed recently other than some EQ'ing- I cut the lows a little more than what I had been, which should increase volume if anything. I would just try the limiter at 12:00, but playing alone at home won't give me a good idea of where my volume will be with drums and guitar. We usually practice on Tuesday or Thursday, so it'll be a few days before I could test it myself and I'd like to get this figured out prior to then if possible.

What I'm looking to figure out is one of two things: Do I just have a really low output bass and need an overdrive pedal, or does the limiter knob have such a drastic effect on volume (as if it were also a mild compressor) that I should roll it back up to 12:00 to squeeze my signal a bit? I don't recall where the limiter was at the first practice, but I also didn't seem to be having volume issues that I remember either.

[dubcut]

I am not familiar with the 210 workingman, but any other SWR stuff has seemed to be good equipment. I suspect low output of your bass is the culprit. Get the pickups as close as you can to the strings for a starter.

The clip indcator should be 3db down from clpping, so an occaional flash is O.K.

I would stay away from overdrives, I prefer either an eq or a small preamp, to tailor the sound as you wish as you increase signal level.


I can say I had similar issues, and bought a bass with passives, and an onboard active preamp. I have no more issues. I went from "Donk" bass to full, clear, thick boom, woof, growl.

I used to use a 2 band parmetric with gain control, now it collects dust...lol

Originally Posted by pejsaboy

Hi all! Been lurking for a while, and have found lots of good information around the forums here. Now I've got something I can't exactly search for that I could use an answer to.

Thursday I had my second practice with the (three-piece) band I'm currently in. I don't have a ton of experience playing in a band setting, nor with equipment in general. Anyhoo, I play a cheaper, passive Dean Edge 4 string bass through an SWR Workingman's 2x10C. I don't have an extension cab for it yet, but 260 watts seems like it should be pretty beefy with the lows cut pretty heavily. We practice in the guitarists' garage, and our drummer doesn't play all that loud. My buddy (the guitar player) runs a 50 watt B52 combo amp, and hardly cranks the gain or volume. Now, here's the thing- With gain and master at about 3:00 I can definitely hear myself. The problem is I have to play so hard to get that volume that I'm nearly popping the strings (as in slap n pop). I'm not playing slap n pop, so I'm putting out what seems to be far too much effort to get the volume that I am. As a result, it's sloppifying my technique as I've always played with a pretty light right-hand technique.

I've been making sure that I'm not clipping the amp (watching the red LED), and I haven't even seen it briefly light up once. So it seems like I still have headroom in the amp. I've got the limiter knob fully counterclockwise, but not defeated, so I should be getting full volume. I use to have the limiter set at 12:00, but that's the only thing I've changed recently other than some EQ'ing- I cut the lows a little more than what I had been, which should increase volume if anything. I would just try the limiter at 12:00, but playing alone at home won't give me a good idea of where my volume will be with drums and guitar. We usually practice on Tuesday or Thursday, so it'll be a few days before I could test it myself and I'd like to get this figured out prior to then if possible.

What I'm looking to figure out is one of two things: Do I just have a really low output bass and need an overdrive pedal, or does the limiter knob have such a drastic effect on volume (as if it were also a mild compressor) that I should roll it back up to 12:00 to squeeze my signal a bit? I don't recall where the limiter was at the first practice, but I also didn't seem to be having volume issues that I remember either.

[WingKL]

Try cranking your gain and master volume and go down from there to find a setting that works for you. This thread may be useful to you. I owned a SWR Workingman 12 and it wouldn't keep up if the drummer played loud. If you still have to play too hard then you need a louder rig.

[anderbass]

If your bass is active, try a new battery. (a weak battery can lower its output level)

You should also try elevating your combo up on something so its closer to your ears instead of your ankles.

Also make sure your guitarist doesn't have his amps bass knob cranked way up where he's cluttering up the lower frequencies you should be filling. If he's got his amp located in the corner of the room, move it somewhere else because that will greatly increase his amps bass response. (you might try locating your amp in the corner for this same reason)

And finally, don't be afraid to crank your master up higher. The SWR amps I've owned (Bass 350 and 750) only achieved about half of their max volume potential with the master knob set to 3 o'clock.

[johnk_10]

IME, a 260 watt amp thru any single 2x10 cab is not going to be very 'beefy'. IMO, you need more cone area to get that.

[RickenBoogie]

+1, it's all about having enough good speakers.

[Exploiter8]

I jam with two guitarists and a drummer...we are LOUD! I handle everything just fine with an el-cheapo 210 Seismic Audio cab from ebay and a 200 watt GenzBenz ML200 head and passive bass. This is only possible using my TECH21 BDDI or VT pedal. Find one and try it out.

I have my amp tilted up slightly and stand about eight feet away, projecting more towards my ears instead of my legs.

X8

[pejsaboy]

Some good ideas so far. I'll try seeing if I can raise my pickups any higher first, and if that doesn't work I'll start looking into a preamp of some sort I guess. The amp's loud enough, I'm just not willing to play that hard to get the volume out of it.

[pejsaboy]

Originally Posted by WingKL

Try cranking your gain and master volume and go down from there to find a setting that works for you. This thread may be useful to you. I owned a SWR Workingman 12 and it wouldn't keep up if the drummer played loud. If you still have to play too hard then you need a louder rig.

Thanks for that link! The thread told me exactly what I needed to know. I guess what happened is my Aural Enhancer got rolled all the way off, whereas I use to keep it at about 2:00. Thanks to one of the graphs in the thread, I learned that the AE provides the most gain right about 12:00.

Needless to say, with AE back at noon I rolled my gain back to around 1:00, left the master at about 3:00, and have more volume while playing with my usual light touch. I also completely cut the lows and now I have a really even volume and tone across all strings. All three mids sit about 5-7 on the boost side, and the treble slider is flat. It's quite literally the best tone I've ever had, and I've been running the same equipment since I started playing.

[georgestrings]

I always find it funny when people *think* they're in a "loud" band, then post about how their 210 handles it just fine...

If a 210 is plenty for the band you're in, it's not a loud band - you may think it is, but it's not - and by telling people that a 210 should work just fine for a "loud band", you're just setting them up for blown speakers, not hearing themselves, or both...



- georgestrings

[Jim Carr]

Please indicate how each of these are being used/set:

High and Low Sensitivity 1/4" Input Jacks
Gain Control with LED peak clipping indicator
Aural Enhancer Control
Bass Level Control
Lo Mid Level Control
Mid Level Control
Hi Mid Level Control
Treble Level Control
Effects Blend Control
Variable Limiter with Pull Defeat Option
Master Volume Control

I hate to say RTFM, but IMHO you should have no trouble overdriving your speakers (in a bad way) with the built in amp, even with a passive bass, assuming there are no malfunctions in your instrument or the amp. You are doing something wrong, I suspect, and while a 2nd preamp is a nice thing, you in fact already have a preamp. Figure out how to use it. Check this if you have not: http://www.swrsound.com/support/manu...wm2x10c_om.PDF

[pejsaboy]

I never said I couldn't distort my speakers, Jim. What I said is that it seemed like I should have more volume at the settings my amp was at. check out my response in post #9 for the solution. I always RTFM before I use anything that I buy for myself, and the information I needed is not included in said manual. In fact, I keep a copy of the manual you linked saved on my pc and have for quite some time. Thanks for the suggestion though!

[Jim Carr]

I seem to have been redundant/late with my post, but I am glad to hear your problems have been solved.