Selling my big rig - looking for opinions on powerful lightweight heads

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Hi everybody.

After plugging a MarkBass F1 head to my Schroeder 1210R cab, I've decided to sell my two Avatar cabs and my Kustom Groove 1200 head. I haven't used the Avatars in a long time and carrying a wood case containing the Kustom along with a Furman power conditioner within a GigSkinz rack bag has been a PITA to me for a long time.

The thing is: I loved the combination of the F1 plus the 1210R, but I want to hear your recommendations/opinions on similar heads like the MarkBass F500 or the Genz Benz Shuttle 9.0. I don't know if there are even better options out there, so that's why I want to hear from you (aside from your comments on the aforementioned products, of course). I'm not considering the GB Shuttle 9.0 because it's rated 900W @ 4 Ohms, and my 4-Ohm Schroeder can handle up to 850W RMS according to the specs sheet.

So, in a nutshell, I want to take the most advantage of my Schroeder cab with the smallest, most versatile and powerful possible head it can handle. What would be your choice? Thank you in advance for your input!

[bassdoubler]

I sold all my Markbass gear after I found Euphonic Audio. The IAmp Pro is really something....

[Munjibunga]

So what's the problem with the Shuttle? Do you think it has too much power or too little? It looks like an ideal match to me. I'm using my Shuttle 9.0 on an AE212 rated at 600 watts, and it may be the best sounding rig I've played (compare Eden, Aguilar, Glockenklang, Walter Woods).

I'm thrilled with the Shuttle. So is my back.

[Alvaro Martín Gómez A.]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

So what's the problem with the Shuttle? Do you think it has too much power or too little? It looks like an ideal match to me. I'm using my Shuttle 9.0 on an AE212 rated at 600 watts, and it may be the best sounding rig I've played (compare Eden, Aguilar, Glockenklang, Walter Woods).

I'm thrilled with the Shuttle. So is my back.

Well, I've always understood that an amp's wattage shouldn't exceed the cab's rating (too much power), but seems that I'm wrong?

[Rune Bivrin]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Well, I've always understood that an amp's wattage shouldn't exceed the cab's rating, but seems that I'm wrong?

It doesn't matter how much the amp is rated for. What's important is how much of that you actually use.

Pair that with the fact that most speaker ratings are somewhat "artistic" and a lot of amps are equally optimistically spec'd and what you have is a crap shoot. When your speakers sound like they're dying you back off. That's about all you can know about that, unless you take a close look at the drivers and how they'll operate in that specific box.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Well, I've always understood that an amp's wattage shouldn't exceed the cab's rating (too much power), but seems that I'm wrong?

EAW recommends that the power amp have 1.5 to 2 times the power rating of the cabinet. When I had their subs, each was rated at 1,400 watts continuous. I drove each one with a QSC PLX 2402 bridged, making 2,400 watts available for each cab.

Bottom line, it's nice to have a little headroom for those transients. Remember, a cab's peak rating is usually at least double its RMS rating. I think the Shuttle 9.0 would do you up just right. They sound great.

Just don't crank it all the way up. If you start to hear farting, turn it down.

[AMJBASS]

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

Well, I've always understood that an amp's wattage shouldn't exceed the cab's rating (too much power), but seems that I'm wrong?

This is a fairly common misconception. In many cases its actually better to have a much higher powered amplifier as it will have more head room.

[lbwdog]

The three most popular micro amps, MarkBass, Genz, and Gallien, are around 500watts. They all have their fan base. If more power is desired, MarkBass has several in the 800 watt range, as does Genz, who are debuting the Streamliner in January. It's designed with a three tube front end and is said to be able to capture the SVT vibe. Looks really interesting to me.

[i_got_a_mohawk]

Originally Posted by Adrian Juras

This is a fairly common misconception. In many cases its actually better to have a much higher powered amplifier as it will have more head room.

I'd say that is the common misconception.

The thing is, you will hear when your amp is struggling, using an amp that is 50 watts over the thermal rating of an 850 watt speaker cab isn't going to do it harm.

To be pushing 900 watts from the Genz you'd have it cranked to it's peak and it would sound like crap!

As long as you are getting the volume you need, I think it would be a winning combination

[Hoover]

fwiw I retired my "big rig" five years ago and have been using an Acoustic Image Focus 1 (Series II) ever since. 600 watts rms into 4 ohms, size & weight of a hotel bible, and a wonderfully warm, clean tone that works perfectly with the many different speaker cabinets (Eden, Flite Sound, WattFab, plus numerous backline rentals) that I pair it with. Highly recommended. They're up to Series III or IV now, but presumably just as awesome.

[zombywoof5050]

The Acoustic Image Clarus+ is 800 watts into 4 ohms and 1000 watts into 2 ohms.

[svtb15]

I did the same thing a few years ago..by ditching my big rigs... But now i am doing a gig that requires a larger rig. ughh it never ends !
I have been using my Shuttle 9 on all my small gigs yet it also gets used on the larger gigs with an 810 or other cab combination that equals 4 ohms.
My smaller gigs i use the shuttle 9 on a pair of 112s cabs with great success..

What i like about the shuttle 9 and possibly the new Streamliner head is that the Shuttle 9 went with me on some European dates that i had to fly to.. It fits in the front pocket of my gig bag or easily in my carry on.
For local dates it is a no brainer... 900 watts at 4 ohms and only 4 pounds the size of a cigar box.. and it can take a lickin and keep on tickin.. love it
Also I have used my Shuttle 9 on my friends shroder 1210 and it worked pretty nice.. The shutttle 9 has a full bottom that helps to level the mids of that cab..

Although i have pair of the new Genz Uber1288 cabs on the way this week and one of their new heads, the Streamliner 900 which is 900 watts with 3 tubes in the preamp so 6 stages of class "A" gain..
Looking forward to it.

[gre107]

I got a MarkBass 2x10 combo about 2 years or so ago and haven't looked back since!
Light weight, loud when it needs to be (plus adding an additional 2x10 cab when needed increases the output too) & killer tone... what more could you want?

[JxBass]

Another vote for the Shuttle 9.0. You can't get a much better ratio that 900 watts at 4 lbs. I use it on my 500w @ 4 ohm cabinet and it does just fine. As previously stated, just don't crank it to the max (you won't need to).

I love Markbass and have owned several combos and amps and still have my trusty LMII. Every time I do an A/B between Genz/Benz/Markbass, Genz Benz comes out on top.

[Pat C.]

I'll third the recommendation for Acoustic Image. It doesn't have the tone shaping capabilities of the Genz or Markbass, so if you dig the presets on those heads you may be better off going in that direction. The AI's are clear and clean, closer to PA re-production than instrument amplification, what you put in is what you get out. They have a built in discrete notch filter and adjustable high pass, and the high-pass will be effective in helping to prevent speaker damage if you're worried about over-excursion.

Regarding power, don't get too caught up in matching amp output to the rated power handling of your cabinet. An amp rated at about the handling of your cab would probably be fine. Using an amp rate twice the power of you cab can be done, you do have to be a little more cautious in terms of how hard you drive the amp, and in preventing clipping. Some of these articles have more information on power and applying it to loudspeakers, check them out if you want to learn more. (links are .pdfs)

EAW: Amplifier Power

Peavey: How much power?

Acoustic Image: The purpose of power.

[agedhorse]

Just a note here regarding power handling of speaker cabinets. There are two different power limitations is speakers... mechanical and thermal. While the thermal rating is relatively easy to quantify with some degree of accuracy, mechanical limitations are not.

Mechanical limits change with frequency and temperature because a speker driver and enclosure are not a linear system. Look at a driver displacement plot and you will see that at low frequencies, it's relatively easy to exceed the linear limits of most drivers at (very) roughly 1/2 of the thermal rating depending on frequency, enclosure design/tuning and and amplifier processing.

Driving a speaker hard (at or above it's thermal rating) at very low frequencies will, over time deteriorate the speaker's suspension components. This changes it's tuning within the enclosure and the system no longer performs as designed. Also, as you drive a speaker harder and harder, power compression occurs which limits the acoustic SPL output as losses within the speaker system increase rapidly. Typically once you reach the thermkal power rating, an additional 3dB of power input (doubling) will yield only an additional 1dB of acoustic SPL output (rather than the theoretical 3dB), so while the risk of damage increases greatly the acoustic SPL benefit does not.

[VroomVroom]

Just chiming in...

For 11 months and two weeks I've exclusively gigged the Shuttle 9.0...for a total of 49 live engagements. I couldn't be happier. It's driven one or two Aguilar GS112 cabs, one or two Bergantino HT112ER cabs, and a Bergantino AE212. No issues, certainly no complaints, but tons of compliments at the punch, oomph, and just great tone.

[fractal0243]

I can't vouch for the Shuttle 9.0, but I just picked up a Shuttle 6.0 to replace my GK 1001rb, and I'm seriously impressed. I can dial in a tone pretty close to the GK, not to mention I can get some other tones out of it that my GK could never do. It's got all the power and more than I'll ever need, even when I'm pushing a goliath 410 with a son of berta 15 together. Oh, and it fits in my bass case.

[Modulator]

My main rig is a Shuttle 9.0 into a 1210R. They match up great. I'd definitely keep it in contention. I run a Tech 21 VT bass in front of it, which tames the mids a little and makes the Schroeder sound a little more like a conventional cab and adds a little grit to the upper part of my tone.

[Lublin]

I can't vouch for the Shuttle 9.0 but can for 6.0 and will add that it's a fantastic amp. Extremely versatile and so easy to dial in!