sending EQ'd signal to PA

[MichiganMadDog]

I see most amps only provide a balanced direct out so how can you sen an EQ'd signal to the PA out of the 1/4 in headphone or tuner jack? Balanced line out is what you would need correct?
Why EQ your bass for stage if the PA signal isn't what you hear?

[James Judson]

Microphone!!!

[Bassbubble11]

Because that's the way it is. And yes...... it sucks.

[RickenBoogie]

Some amps provide a pre/post eq switch for the DI.

[tbirdsp]

Originally Posted by RickenBoogie

Some amps provide a pre/post eq switch for the DI.

Yep - both my Hartke 3500 and GK MB200 have pre/post EQ switches.

[JTE]

Originally Posted by MichiganMadDog

Why EQ your bass for stage if the PA signal isn't what you hear?

Do your cabinets sound like full-range PA cabs with subs? If not, then there's no way at all that the correct EQ for stage is also the correct EQ for FOH. So instead of sending a signal that needs to be drastically reEQ'd to fit FOH, send them the basic sound of your bass.

Or use a mic and deal with a whole other set of compromises.

Or buy an amp where the DI is switchable between pre/post.

John

[walterw]

or have your stuff together enough that your EQ'd onstage tone is still good enough for the FOH guy to use.

this argument is always well hashed out in the "mic my cab" or "stupid soundguy" threads.

[slaerts]

Many amps and adjustable preamp/di boxes come with a pre-post switch these days.

If you have a good sound guy you trust send him the pre signal. And discuss it with him, he may like the post signal. A good soundguy with a good system can make you sound a million $ with a pre eq signal.

If, like me, you don't have a sound guy at all, send a good post signal.

If you have a sound guy you don't trust/know, strap yourself in it could get bumpy. Try to discuss it with him, nicely. Attitude, demands or a non-negotiable take on things will lead to trouble.

And yes there are heaps of sound guy bashing threads because of this very issue.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by walterw

or have your stuff together enough that your EQ'd onstage tone is still good enough for the FOH guy to use.

this argument is always well hashed out in the "mic my cab" or "stupid soundguy" threads.

That's why I'm withholding comment in this thread

[Blue]

I learned a lesson the other day: Mixing for some friends I decided to use his bass cab' for the sub (mostly just the kick because of how low the crossover is set). Started out I took his DI - then sent it right back, 100% flat, but mixed with the kick-drumm using a QSC amp to drive his cabinet. At some point I started to play with his EQ to make it "better" out front ... but apparently my ears don't match his - between sets we discussed the changes he heard and so I went back to flat.

Small Band, just for fun, so no harm .. but lesson learned.

[zortation]

Originally Posted by MichiganMadDog

Why EQ your bass for stage if the PA signal isn't what you hear?

Because most soundmen prefer to work with the sound of your bass instead of your amp.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by zortation

Because most soundmen prefer to work with the sound of your bass instead of your amp.

OK, now I'll comment

I really don't care what they want to work with, quite honestly.

[Phalex]

I send a pre-eq signal to the board, and eq my stage amp so I can hear myself. If I send a nice full, clean signal to the sound guy it's his job to make me sound good FOH. No amount of eq tweaking on my part is going to change that.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

OK, now I'll comment

I really don't care what they want to work with, quite honestly.

Do you care how you sound FOH?

Personally I don't give a crap. If the sound guy sucks, the FOH mix will suck. The key is to work with a pro sound guy and not get too hung up on your own perception of what you bass should sound like. Different rooms require different stuff, and you may not get all the subtleties from your position on stage.

If the monitor mix is good, that's all I can ask for. FOH ain't the bands job.

[arai]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Personally I don't give a crap. If the sound guy sucks, the FOH mix will suck. The key is to work with a pro sound guy and not get too hung up on your own perception of what you bass should sound like. Different rooms require different stuff, and you may not get all the subtleties from your position on stage.

If the monitor mix is good, that's all I can ask for. FOH ain't the bands job.

I have been thinking along the same lines the last few years. I always felt like I had to get my tone out the front for years.
But most of your tone is in the hands anyway
I do go post eq on my amp DI but like to have a clean DI send too, so the sound guy can work with what suits the room best.
I leave it to make the call but I often ask the sound guy to take 4 to 5khz and above out if I am using a distortion though.
A good relationship with the sound guy does wonders IMHO

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Do you care how you sound FOH?

Personally I don't give a crap. If the sound guy sucks, the FOH mix will suck. The key is to work with a pro sound guy and not get too hung up on your own perception of what you bass should sound like. Different rooms require different stuff, and you may not get all the subtleties from your position on stage.

If the monitor mix is good, that's all I can ask for. FOH ain't the bands job.

I respectfully disagree, Alex. The band's FOH sound actually IS our responsibility and I'm usually in charge of deciding how good it sounds and what needs work. I play in a band that might be called a "special needs" band because we play a lot of older music that doesn't always follow the modern music "heavy kick/lows" convention, and if we get that kind of mix, it can destroy our whole presentation. Plus there are things I don't care for like treble past 5k.

Now do I sit out in the audience for the entire soundcheck and micromanage the soundguy? No. But we do make what we need for a mix known, and I'll check it. Fortunately, 95% of the time I go out there and give them a thumbs up. But at the end of the day, it's our name on the gig, and if the sound isn't right, nobody blames the soundman...they blame us.

Of course, that's never necessary if you have your own soundman on every gig, but we're not quite that fortunate.

[dsanders]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

OK, now I'll comment

I really don't care what they want to work with, quite honestly.

BOOM. Was waiting for it : p

[dsanders]

I always send a pre signal. I side with both Jimmy and Alex on this one. Both valid points.

[Bassmec]

From my not inconsiderable experience as a front of house or side of stage engineer, unless the bass player is using something studio monitor like, for instance a fearful design, I would not be interested in the pre eq'd di out and as today almost every performance seems to be
Video'd in my field of work, the DI is always taken pre eq and sent to the multicore splitter box and on to the AD interface box.
I always have a mic set up which goes the same way and most of the time it's going to be the microphone sound off the bass cab that I want for the front of house,
I tend to treat the di as an emergency backup in case of amp failure so I would not be so interested in your amp DI normally, unless its on a separate pre amp, so the bass amp can sit there blowing smoke and the side of stage engineer is compensating for the rig loss and have still got
signal for the front of house.
But then most of the stuff I work on is going to need the bass cabinet sound to smooth the distortion in the pedal and normally if its a tube amp I will want the natural compression mirrored in the front of house.
I am very old school in my approach, the younger engineers tend not to use microphones on bass and are not so much driven by the idea of sound reinforcement as sound creator, they usually have a bass rig of their own sonic creation in the bass channel insert normally in the form of compression outboard EQ and even pre amp functions like modelling drive or gain, unless the DI is a sans amp and already has it in.
Rock and Roll is shrinking fast these days, its sad we used to have so much fun charging about with fork lifts like a bunch demented drug crazed warehouse operatives at Tasco sound and light back in the seventies, nowadays you have to have a licence, Heath and safety training and a harness to take two steps up a ladder these days.
Comes to something when the shot bags we used to put over the legs of the bass guitar mic stand weighed more than the bass players entire rig these days.

[Blue]

Originally Posted by Bassmec

... Rock and Roll is shrinking fast ..

My back said "Shrinking Fast" is Great

Originally Posted by Bassmec

... nowadays you have to have a licence, Heath and safety training and a harness to take two steps up a ladder these days.

OSHA say's 4 feet.