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03-13-2011, 12:39 AM
|  | Registered User
Lakland Musical Instruments, Sandberg Guitars | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago | | | Should I go series to turn my 8 ohm to 4 ohm?!?
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Kinda in a crunch here. I have Two 410 cabs that really aren't giving enough on their own. Both are 8 ohm cabs. I have two heads, one rated at 500w @ 4 ohms and one rated 350w @ 4 ohms/ 500w @ 2 Ohms. Yes, I know I can combine the two cabs and really get the max outta my heads, but I need a one cabinet solution...and I have no budget to play with!
The drivers are BP102's 16 ohm....should I pull the trigger and Wire the darn thing in series?
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03-13-2011, 12:44 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Nude Zealand | | | If you want a 64 ohm cab, sure. Should pull a cool 75 W from your head, if you're lucky.
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03-13-2011, 12:46 AM
|  | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | Four 16-ohm speakers in series gets you 64 ohms.  |
03-13-2011, 12:49 AM
| | OVNIFX
EXAR pedals rep for North & Central America | | Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: PDX, OR | | | Plus I'm trying to figure out how re-wiring a cab is supposed to be easier/better than bringing two cabs to the gig. And also how four 16-ohm speakers makes an 8-ohm cab... although I'm sure somebody will explain it and I'll d'oh! slap my forehead. |
03-13-2011, 12:54 AM
| | Registered User
Lakland Musical Instruments, Sandberg Guitars | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago | | Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowlerBox  If you want a 64 ohm cab, sure. Should pull a cool 75 W from your head, if you're lucky. | You are sooooo right! What the hell am I thinking??!? I'm way too sleepy for this LOL!!!!
Going to bed before I say more stupid things!
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"Support the strong, give courage to the timid, remind the indifferent, and warn the opposed." -Whitney M. Young
"I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired."-Fannie Lou Hamer
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03-13-2011, 12:59 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Nude Zealand | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bongomania Plus I'm trying to figure out how re-wiring a cab is supposed to be easier/better than bringing two cabs to the gig. And also how four 16-ohm speakers makes an 8-ohm cab... although I'm sure somebody will explain it and I'll d'oh! slap my forehead. | Good point, I sorta skipped over that bit.
Back to the OP: aside from the bungled mathematics, the whole enterprise is more than a little pointless. If you're not loud enough with one 410 cabinet, you need more speakers. Dragging a little more power out of your head into the same speakers will achieve nothing. Really nothing -- 2-3 dB max, audible in a studio, you won't notice on stage.
As Bongomania pointed out, it seems likely that it's a 4 ohm cab anyway, but this obviously needs to be confirmed.
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03-13-2011, 01:02 AM
|  | Total Hyper-Elite Member | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Groom Lake, NV | | Quote:
Originally Posted by bongomania Plus I'm trying to figure out how re-wiring a cab is supposed to be easier/better than bringing two cabs to the gig. And also how four 16-ohm speakers makes an 8-ohm cab... although I'm sure somebody will explain it and I'll d'oh! slap my forehead. | No need to slap. With four 16-ohm drivers, you can get 64 ohms (all in series), 16 ohms (series-parallel), or 4 ohms (all in parallel). That's it.
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03-13-2011, 01:03 AM
| | Registered User
Lakland Musical Instruments, Sandberg Guitars | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago | | | I'm positive that it's not a 4 Ohm cab. With that said, I am going to bed.
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"Support the strong, give courage to the timid, remind the indifferent, and warn the opposed." -Whitney M. Young
"I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired."-Fannie Lou Hamer
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03-13-2011, 01:04 AM
| | Registered User
Lakland Musical Instruments, Sandberg Guitars | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Munjibunga No need to slap. With four 16-ohm drivers, you can get 64 ohms (all in series), 16 ohms (series-parallel), or 4 ohms (all in parallel). That's it. | I meant to type in parallel! My goofiness! 
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"Support the strong, give courage to the timid, remind the indifferent, and warn the opposed." -Whitney M. Young
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03-13-2011, 01:07 AM
| | Total Hyper-Elite Member | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Groom Lake, NV | | | The thing is, if they're 8-ohm cabs, the drivers are definitely not 16-ohm drivers. You can't rewire any 8-ohm 410 to 4 ohms.
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What is this thing called butthurt? |
03-13-2011, 01:10 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA | | | 3 parallel, 1 series
Quote:
Originally Posted by Munjibunga No need to slap. With four 16-ohm drivers, you can get 64 ohms (all in series), 16 ohms (series-parallel), or 4 ohms (all in parallel). That's it. | Actually, you can also get 21.33 Ohms.
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03-13-2011, 01:10 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Fair Haven, MI | | | Agreed, with 4-16 ohm speakers it is not possible to achieve 8 ohms total load |
03-13-2011, 01:14 AM
| | Registered User
Lakland Musical Instruments, Sandberg Guitars | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago | | | They were replacement drivers that were sent out with the wrong impedance as a mistake. The order was never corrected. The drivers were placed in the cabinet and set to the side. I inherited it (the cabinet) from a buddy shortly a day or so after the installation, but never really fired it up....never needed to. It just sits around collecting dust and taking up space. Just wondering if it was worth putting it to use.
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03-13-2011, 01:19 AM
|  | No need to ask, he's a smooth... Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Midlands UK | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Munjibunga The thing is, if they're 8-ohm cabs, the drivers are definitely not 16-ohm drivers. You can't rewire any 8-ohm 410 to 4 ohms. | Yep.
How do you know the impedance of the cabs? Or the drivers? If it says 16 ohms on the drivers themselves and there are four of them, then it cannot be an 8 ohm cab (almost certainly 4 ohms if wired conventionally). OTOH, if it really is an 8 ohm cab then your drivers are not 16 ohm drivers.
In other words - rewiring is not going to give you any workable options, as each cab is either 4 ohms already, or 8 ohms and impossible to rewire to 4 ohms.
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Originally Posted by SBassman | |
03-13-2011, 01:22 AM
| | No need to ask, he's a smooth... Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Midlands UK | | Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiDeck Actually, you can also get 21.33 Ohms. | Ha ha - true enough. Power distribution would be a bit uneven, though (50% to one driver, and just 16.7% to each of the three others). EDIT - not thinking straight here; see correction by PhiDeck below. 3x16 in parallel plus one in series with these three gives 5.33 +16 ohm total impedance; 75% of the power would be dissipated in the 16 ohm driver and the remaining 25% split equally between the other three.
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Originally Posted by SBassman |
Last edited by bassybill : 03-13-2011 at 03:20 AM.
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03-13-2011, 03:06 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Sarasota, Florida, USA | | | Thevenin/Kirchoff refresher
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassybill Ha ha - true enough. Power distribution would be a bit uneven, though (50% to one driver, and just 16.7% to each of the three others). | Afraid it's even worse than that: 75% to one, and 8.33% to each of the other three.
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03-13-2011, 03:15 AM
| | No need to ask, he's a smooth... Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Midlands UK | | Quote:
Originally Posted by PhiDeck Afraid it's even worse than that: 75% to one, and 8.33% to each of the other three. | Correct - ta!
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Originally Posted by SBassman | |
03-13-2011, 06:04 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Portland, OR | | | Wouldn't it be possible to wire two parallel to the jack and the other two parallel to the jack 16/16=8 in parallel with another 16/16=8 to make 4 ohm.
Same as two 8 ohm cabs daisy chained (head into cab one then from cab one into to cab two), like my Trace Elliot cabs are wired for an in and an out?
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03-13-2011, 06:25 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: New Zealand | | No idea what you're saying but the previous posters are right and you are wrong  4 identical drivers are either 4 or 8 ohms when combined, leaving aside the 2 or 16 ohm options as unusable. They is what they is, can't be both.
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03-13-2011, 06:26 AM
| | No need to ask, he's a smooth... Moderator | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: West Midlands UK | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracebassplayer Wouldn't it be possible to wire two parallel to the jack and the other two parallel to the jack 16/16=8 in parallel with another 16/16=8 to make 4 ohm.
Same as two 8 ohm cabs daisy chained (head into cab one then from cab one into to cab two), like my Trace Elliot cabs are wired for an in and an out? | That's the point, really - if he has 16 ohm drivers in a 410 cab, they'll pretty much certainly be wired as you describe (all 4 in parallel) and the impedance will already be 4 ohms. So he doesn't need to rewire.
If he has an 8 ohm cab, he can't rewire it to 4 (and he doesn't have 16 ohm drivers).
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