The shrinking bass amp trend

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by nostatic

Guitarists have been downsizing for a long time. Smaller, low power tube amps have been hot for the past 20+ years. Typically guitarists and bassist have totally different tone goals, and a small tube amp where you're driving the power tubes hard is perfect for guitar, not perfect for bass. The smart guitarists realized this decades ago (Clapton used a Fender Champ for much of Layla). It has become a trend more recently and big amps are pretty much just for show. The same is true for bass imho. Amp and cab design has gotten so good that you can carry many rooms with a micro and a pair of 1-12s. Over the past few years when I've had a supplied SVT/810 back line I get bummed out because frankly it sounds inferior to my current setup. I won't get into FOH because that is a whole 'nother thing where you've got limited control.

It is funny that guitards are made fun of here, but plenty of bass players cling to things that might not be optimal for a variety of reasons. And before anyone throws the tube argument in, I get that. I run tubes in the front end (and not just a single 12ax7 tossed in because it glows - Monique point-to-point tube preamp). Since I haul my own gear no way I'm going to run an all tube head - just too much weight to slog around to 100+ gigs a year. Again, technology to the rescue. Real tubes plus good Class D power = damn good compromise.

I'm willing to schlep the big tube amp (it's actually not much heavier than my old solid-state head), partly because I'm young and have a pretty good back.

I also know that as I age and maybe don't want to be hauling that around, Class D will still be there. And plenty of Class D amps sound good.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by HeavyJazz77

For the last ten years or so, bass amplification lines have been getting lighter and smaller. The bass public for the most part seems to love this. However, when you look across the stage you'll see that the guitarist's world have seen no such evolution.

I assume this is a rhetorical statement.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by HeavyJazz77

For the last ten years or so, bass amplification lines have been getting lighter and smaller.

On another note, I have been using such amps for almost 30 years now with Walter Woods amps.

[subbasshz]

im so glad to see this trend. makes it so easy for me to score old 2x15s, 8x10s, 4x12s and folded horns to pair with my heavy ass tube heads and 70s - 80s SS tank heads.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by subbasshz

im so glad to see this trend. makes it so easy for me to score old 2x15s, 8x10s, 4x12s and folded horns to pair with my heavy ass tube heads and 70s - 80s SS tank heads.

Thank God for wives of ex-metalheads, eh?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jeff Scott

On another note, I have been using such amps for almost 30 years now with Walter Woods amps.

+1. I think the OP is correct though that, starting with the amazing Markbass LMII 7 or so years ago, this style of amp (i.e., very small but very powerful amps with SMPS) became available to the mass market with wide distribution at a cost similar or less to a similarly spec'd 'heavy' amp. The LMII really changed the entire bass amplification market IMO.

I replaced my Walter Woods (almost $3,000) with a $600 amp which I actually liked more tonally (actually, I had replaced my Walter with a Thunderfunk550b, and then like quite a few others, replaced that head with the LMII) in an even smaller, lighter package (of course, others would still dig the Walter tone better)

[subbasshz]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Thank God for wives of ex-metalheads, eh?

you aint kidding.
went from metal to doom the first time I heard electric wizard. it was like everything I didnt like about metal was fixed and made perfect all at once as soon as I discovered doom.

and as we all know you cant show up to a doom room with a 1x12 and a micro head thats for sure.

[Scobby Bott]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Thank God for wives of ex-metalheads, eh?

New band name.

[Jeff Scott]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1. I think the OP is correct though that, starting with the amazing Markbass LMII 7 or so years ago, this style of amp (i.e., very small but very powerful amps with SMPS) became available to the mass market with wide distribution at a cost similar or less to a similarly spec'd 'heavy' amp. The LMII really changed the entire bass amplification market IMO.

I agree, totally, with you on this as to mass availability of micro amps, and I too, bought a LM II in '07 and alternated between the Walter Woods and it depending on the gig. I have since sold the LM II for a F1 and then it went when I got my Tone Hammer 500. I still use either the WW or the Aguilar interchangeably, both are great amps.

[D Bopp]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Band's for the most part don't need the wall of sound amps any more ... for guitar or bass



And when bands do have the wall of sound it is fake.



With modern pa systems a bass player does not need an 8x10 and the guitar does not need an 8x12

I saw Slayer a few years ago, and was siting in the balcony looking sideways at the stage. Kerry King had a wall of Marshall cabs, and I could see from behind that only one cab was plugged in to a head.

[JimmyM]

At least he wasn't lip synching.

[seamonkey]

Guitars, Keyboards, ... yes they are moving to smaller rigs and adopting new technologies. It's all over the place.
There's still a lot of artist endorsement for big rigs, but what works in the studio works on stage, and I'm seeing much more adoption on the guitarist and keyboardist side of the fence.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Band's for the most part don't need the wall of sound amps any more ... for guitar or bass



And when bands do have the wall of sound it is fake.



With modern pa systems a bass player does not need an 8x10 and the guitar does not need an 8x12

This is an ad for Engl. I'm not saying this stuff doesn't happen, but I have been to a lot of shows and I am a gear whore, so usually I spend a lot of time surveying the equipment. I have never seen this personally. Again, I am not suggesting that it doesn't happen. I have seen plenty of bands minimizing their backline, but they all seem to do it honestly. That is to say, you can clearly see what they are playing through. Maybe this phenomenon is more prevalent with 80s type metal guys or death metal bands?

I have nothing bad to say about using the PA and minimizing the stage gear, but for me personally, I like to have big amps on stage.

[seamonkey]

Big back-line facades are going away for big screens and lighting.

[domdec314]

In my area, I've been seeing more and more guitarists using preamp pedals, like the SansAmp. In my country band, the singer and the lead guitarist have their guitars running through Line 6 pedal boards. I'm the only one left with a real amp, which acts purely as a bass monitor. As soon as the lead guitarist and the drummer get IEMs, I'm replacing my amp with a preamp pedal.

[JimmyM]

It's very possible to replace amps with DI's and IEM's and sound great, no matter what the instrument. If I ever join a band that does that, I will, too. But my main band has zero interest in it, and I have zero interest in it as well. Monitors on some of our gigs are usually crap for bass, and even the good ones need some radical re-EQing. And IEM's make me think I'm playing through a Rockman. NI.

[lpdeluxe]

I can't speak as guitarists being "Them" vs "Us" bassists, because I have always played both.

My first bass amp was a '63 B15N: 40 watts and 87 lb! Yeah, it sounded great, but the day came when I couldn't lif it unaided (I'm 70, which is relevant). Next came a B100R, with 100 W at 65 lb. Big improvement. Our band's PA had subs, so I set it on a stand and aimed it at the drummer's head. After the band broke up, I got a Hartke HA2500 with `1x15 and 2x10 Transporter cabs. That was good enough for outdoor gigs, and I could tote it one piece at a time. Then I traded that in on a Walkabout Scout 1x15. Ooops! Sixty-four lbs. So I bought a Genz-Benz Shuttle 3.0-10t,at 18 lbs, and I added a second 10t (16 lb) for playing with a drummer. Didn't sound as good as the M/B, but it was easy to move. Then one day, I realized that I could pull out the 13 lb Walkabout head and set it on top of two 10ts, and that's what I do now.

With guitar amps, my collection has ranged from a 144 lb Music Man HD-130 Reverb with a 2x12 cabinet, to my current favorite, a Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight that combines a small footprint, 250 W into a 1x12 box, and 25.6 lb.

I now have two terrific sounding amps that are lightweight and small, and I have never looked back. Size matters. I can haul my own rig to gigs (in a Mustang ragtop, not a very large car) and sound good when I get there.

And the young guitar players around here are getting lightweight modeling amps. They're used to small electronics, and don't see any reason to lug around refrigerators.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by HeavyJazz77

For the last ten years or so, bass amplification lines have been getting lighter and smaller. The bass public for the most part seems to love this. However, when you look across the stage you'll see that the guitarist's world have seen no such evolution.

Why is that?

Uhhhhh ... they have roadies?

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Uhhhhh ... they have roadies?

LOL

[Munjibunga]

Actually it's because guitarists have an image to maintain. Bassists have no image. Most people don't even know what a bass is.