Side By Side 2x12

[zhollywood]

So I've been interested in finding a side by side 2x12 bass cab similar to the layout of a guitar cab but all the 2x12's I've found are diagonally aligned.
Any info? Is there a sonic difference between the two placements? Bad idea?
I've searched it to death and can't find any info or products besides the TC RS212 but even then, it's designed to be a verticle 2x12.

Thanks!

[YuppyPunk]

Originally Posted by zhollywood

So I've been interested in finding a side by side 2x12 bass cab similar to the layout of a guitar cab but all the 2x12's I've found are diagonally aligned.
Any info? Is there a sonic difference between the two placements? Bad idea?
I've searched it to death and can't find any info or products besides the TC RS212 but even then, it's designed to be a verticle 2x12.

Thanks!

Ashdown VS212
GK MBE212 is nearly vertical/horizontal

[lustersilk]

SWR 12-Pack - super good, side by side, sealed. Have to find used but they are amazing.

[BassmanPaul]

If you place the cabinet on its side with the drivers in a vertical line it will work much better than side by side.

[will33]

The difference is in the dispersion of the middle and upper frequencies.

The vertical alignment will spread them wider horizontally, as well as get a speaker up closer to your ears, making it seemingly louder/easier to hear yourself.

The horizontal spacing will bring comb filtering into the horizontal plane while increasing vertical dispersion.

Most of us like to default to the better horizontal spread of frequencies, because although audiences can be pretty widespread, the difference in ear level of a tall person standing and a short person sitting is still only 3 or 4 ft.

Having them horizontal on the floor can sound a bit bassier to the player up close, bit the main difference out in the audience is having more of a hotspot on center with the speaker where they're getting an earful of all the sound, and muddier sound off to the sides out of the hotspot.

Some people just make them however they look nice stacked with their other cabs, and some manage to do both.

[JGR]

Originally Posted by lustersilk

SWR 12-Pack - super good, side by side, sealed. Have to find used but they are amazing.

The 12 Stack/pack are ported cabs.

[Worldeeeter]

You can always get a couple of 112s...lotsa companies make 'em. That way, you can stack 'em or lay 'em side-by-side, depending on your mood.
Check out the "mini rigs of doom" threads on here (they're up to #4 now). Tons of great examples. Personally, I'd get a couple of Mesa PH112s.

[SactoBass]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

If you place the cabinet on its side with the drivers in a vertical line it will work much better than side by side.

Big +1

OP: do a Google or TB search on "comb filtering" and you will find out why having the drivers vertical (best) or diagonal (semi-best) is better than having them horizontal (worst).

[jimmeyer176]

Markbass makes a 4ohm 212, horizontal, front ported cabinet, very cool and compact cabinet, came very close to picking one up years ago

[lustersilk]

Originally Posted by JGR

The 12 Stack/pack are ported cabs.

Nope, they are sealed - just sold one of each two months ago

[JGR]

Originally Posted by lustersilk

Nope, they are sealed - just sold one of each two months ago

We're talking about the SWR 12-stack/12-pack right? I've owned two of each, they are absolutely, most definitely ported - there is a big slot port across the front of the cabs, can't miss it....

Description: 2x12 bass speaker enclosure
Power Handling: 400 watts RMS
Impedance: 8 Ohms
Speaker Complement: Two custom 12-inch SWR drivers
Heavy-Duty Inset Metal Handles, Front Slot Port
Dimensions: 26.5"W x 19"H x 16.375"D
Weight: 63 lbs.

[PlungerModerno]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

If you place the cabinet on its side with the drivers in a vertical line it will work much better than side by side.

Originally Posted by SactoBass

Big +1

OP: do a Google or TB search on "comb filtering" and you will find out why having the drivers vertical (best) or diagonal (semi-best) is better than having them horizontal (worst).

Make it a large and enthusiastic +2.

PA cab makers, Barefaced bass, Greenboy and the authorized builders etc. don't strongly favour the vertical arrangement for looks alone. With a wireless set it's apparently easy to verify.

[lustersilk]

Originally Posted by JGR

We're talking about the SWR 12-stack/12-pack right? I've owned two of each, they are absolutely, most definitely ported - there is a big slot port across the front of the cabs, can't miss it....

Ha ha - sorry, my bust. Yes both these cabs are ported in the front. I regret selling these too - I had the Oxblood Red ones, they were amazing.

[zhollywood]

Hmm... You've all given me a lot to think about.
How does a 410 fair with comb filtering? It is essentially 2 sets of side by sides but all in one box. Or is comb filtering a significant issue with 410's?
I'm just playing advocate trying to get as much info on the subject as possible!
Is comb filtering a major issue with bass vs guitar cabs?
Cause you'll likely have a hard time finding a vertical guitar cab but rarely hear of any issues with them and comb filtering.

[dukeorock]

Originally Posted by zhollywood

Hmm... You've all given me a lot to think about.
How does a 410 fair with comb filtering? It is essentially 2 sets of side by sides but all in one box. Or is comb filtering a significant issue with 410's?
I'm just playing advocate trying to get as much info on the subject as possible!
Is comb filtering a major issue with bass vs guitar cabs?
Cause you'll likely have a hard time finding a vertical guitar cab but rarely hear of any issues with them and comb filtering.

Seems like bass players are more open to new ideas than guitarists, as a rule.

Sadly, the comb filtering/beaming, etc is even worse with a 410, which isn't to say that some don't love them despite the science that suggests they aren't an optimal way to push bass through a room. Lots of folks feel they can get a great sound from a 410, while standing in front of it...the real issue is what the crowd and your bandmates are hearing is very likely something else, that's the effect of comb filtering

[CL400Peavey]

Originally Posted by zhollywood

Hmm... You've all given me a lot to think about.
How does a 410 fair with comb filtering? It is essentially 2 sets of side by sides but all in one box. Or is comb filtering a significant issue with 410's?
I'm just playing advocate trying to get as much info on the subject as possible!
Is comb filtering a major issue with bass vs guitar cabs?
Cause you'll likely have a hard time finding a vertical guitar cab but rarely hear of any issues with them and comb filtering.

Yes a 410 presents the same concerns. Regarding the Guitar cabs, they beam like a mothertrucker which is a bigger issue than the comb filtering.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by zhollywood

Hmm... You've all given me a lot to think about.
How does a 410 fair with comb filtering? It is essentially 2 sets of side by sides but all in one box. Or is comb filtering a significant issue with 410's?
I'm just playing advocate trying to get as much info on the subject as possible!
Is comb filtering a major issue with bass vs guitar cabs?
Cause you'll likely have a hard time finding a vertical guitar cab but rarely hear of any issues with them and comb filtering.

Remember, beaming and comb filtering become gradually more of an issue as you get into the higher frequencies (1K and above). If you have a 410 with a tweeter, which is typically crossed over around 3K, you have a relatively narrow band of upper midrange that doesn't spread quite as well compared to an individual driver or vertically aligned driver stack, or a smaller midrange driver that is crossed over around that 'problem area' (i.e., 1K or so). The 'spread of bass' around the room is not impacted at all.

With guitar, it is much more of an issue, since the vast majority of a guitar frequency response is in that beaming range of frequencies, and since the vast majority of guitarists don't use tweeters, the problem extends all the way up.

There is always a trade-off is these cabinet designs. For me, given that the 410's I've used through the years had tweeters, and since my tone tended to minimize what I call the 'gank area' of the upper mids (that harsh 1K to 2K area), the issue of off axis response performance reduction with this style of cabinet was pretty minimal. Also, many mid drivers that I've experienced have a tonality that I don't particularly care for, so always trade-offs with any design decision.

That being said, if you are using a 212, it is a no brainer to set it as 'vertical' as you can... nothing lost, and 'horizontal' 212's beam a bit more than 10's (due to the wider diameter of the combined speakers).

[Bmorefoozler]

Originally Posted by CL400Peavey

Yes a 410 presents the same concerns. Regarding the Guitar cabs, they beam like a mothertrucker which is a bigger issue than the comb filtering.

and that is an issue that is EASY to figure out with a guitar rig.

Have you ever noticed how i you walk even a couple steps out of the direct path of a guitar cabinet all the midrange clarity disappears? Or how the audience right in front of the guitar cab is sticking their fingers in their ears because it's so loud but that the guitarist can barely hear it as the sound flies past his knees?

[wideload]

Would it be OK to align 4 12" speakers horizontally, if the audience was laying down?

[Bmorefoozler]

Originally Posted by wideload

Would it be OK to align 4 12" speakers horizontally, if the audience was laying down?

sarcasm or?

that makes it worse.

you want the speakers in the narrowest possible orientation. a single collumn of 1" dome tweeters would be perfect if it wasn't for no low end capability.