Signal flow question...

[slap5string]

My current signal flow is as follows:
Bass > Sansamp input > dbx160a > G-K input

I've been using this setup for quite some time with good results, but after cruising tb forums, I've noticed most guys
use the effects loop instead of the input of the amp. As I am currently configured, I have full use of my G-K's preamp.

What are the pro's and con's of this setup? Can I damage my amp or speakers with this configuration?

[Von Felgenhauer]

The only difference is going through the effect loop should bypass your gk preamp( I say should cause I don't know your amp but "most" do). You may like the tone your gk gives off with the sansamp and you may like it better with out it. Try each one and see which you like best.

[billfitzmaurice]

You want the compressor in the loop rather than pre-input, running that way at line level it will usually have a better signal to noise ratio.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

You want the compressor in the loop rather than pre-input, running that way at line level it will usually have a better signal to noise ratio.

Yep!

To clarify further, there are two "ideal" approaches you could take:

1) bass --> sansamp --> GK instrument input
loop send --> dbx --> loop return

2) bass --> sansamp with its output set to line level --> dbx --> loop return (not the instrument input)

Either method will work equally well. The first one lets you keep the GK preamp in the signal path, the second one takes the GK preamp out of the chain.

[slap5string]

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

You want the compressor in the loop rather than pre-input, running that way at line level it will usually have a better signal to noise ratio.

So... how would that chain look?
Bass > sansamp > DBX160a > effects return?

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by slap5string

So... how would that chain look?
Bass > sansamp > DBX160a > effects return?

You send the effects send to the DBX input, the DBX output to the effects return.

[slap5string]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Yep!

To clarify further, there are two "ideal" approaches you could take:

1) bass --> sansamp --> GK instrument input
loop send --> dbx --> loop return

2) bass --> sansamp with its output set to line level --> dbx --> loop return (not the instrument input)

Either method will work equally well. The first one lets you keep the GK preamp in the signal path, the second one takes the GK preamp out of the chain.

OK - I will try both ways and see which I prefer. What was the downside to my current setup? Would this overdrive my speakers and potentially damage them?

[BrianVengeance]

I run my RBI in the effects loop:

bass -> head [ preamp -> comp -> eq -> graph -> fx send -> RBI -> fx return ] -> cab


Any time you apply gain to a signal, you run the risk of clipping... which basically tells your power amp to send the maximum voltage down the wire to your speakers, unused gets turned to heat, melts voice coils, blah blah blah.

The main takeaways are to not overcook your input signal and keep dynamics processors as close to the front of your signal chain as you can (certainly before any effects such as chorus, etc).

[bongomania]

No, it's like Bill said, you are probably getting more noise in your signal chain that way.

FTR, overdrive does not harm speakers. Check the FAQ for the facts about that.

[slap5string]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Yep!

To clarify further, there are two "ideal" approaches you could take:

1) bass --> sansamp --> GK instrument input
loop send --> dbx --> loop return

2) bass --> sansamp with its output set to line level --> dbx --> loop return (not the instrument input)

Either method will work equally well. The first one lets you keep the GK preamp in the signal path, the second one takes the GK preamp out of the chain.

In either setup - where will the compressor be inserted in the chain?

[slap5string]

Originally Posted by BrianVengeance

I run my RBI in the effects loop:

bass -> head [ preamp -> comp -> eq -> graph -> fx send -> RBI -> fx return ] -> cab


Any time you apply gain to a signal, you run the risk of clipping... which basically tells your power amp to send the maximum voltage down the wire to your speakers, unused gets turned to heat, melts voice coils, blah blah blah.

The main takeaways are to not overcook your input signal and keep dynamics processors as close to the front of your signal chain as you can (certainly before any effects such as chorus, etc).

So... you suggest running both the sansamp and compressor in the effects loop? Something like this?

Bass > G-K input
Effects send > Sansamp > compressor > effects return?

[BrianVengeance]

Originally Posted by slap5string

So... you suggest running both the sansamp and compressor in the effects loop? Something like this?

Bass > G-K input
Effects send > Sansamp > compressor > effects return?

In that scenario I would probably move the compressor before the sansamp to help soften transient peaks before applying a second gain stage, but I don't know if there is a hard and fast rule for placing compression between or after two gain stages. Regardless, whatever difference in sound there is will likely be subtle, unless you're absolutely choking the life out of your tone with the compressor.

As long as you aren't clipping, I'd say to experiment and figure out what sounds best to you.

(and for the sake of completeness, there is also a built-in limiter at the end of my signal chain, post fx return)

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by BrianVengeance

Any time you apply gain to a signal, you run the risk of clipping... which basically tells your power amp to send the maximum voltage down the wire to your speakers, unused gets turned to heat, melts voice coils, blah blah blah.

Blah, blah is right. Clipping is moot, except where tweeters are concerned. OP, if the cab distorts it's too loud. Turn it down.

[wespaul]

I'm almost afraid to ask for fear of hijacking the thread or just plain sounding dumb, but here goes: what about if you want to keep the compressor in the chain before supplying a signal to both the amp (including the preamp) and FOH? I can't work it out in my head when the compressor is in the effects loop.

[BrianVengeance]

Originally Posted by wespaul

I'm almost afraid to ask for fear of hijacking the thread or just plain sounding dumb, but here goes: what about if you want to keep the compressor in the chain before supplying a signal to both the amp (including the preamp) and FOH? I can't work it out in my head when the compressor is in the effects loop.

Stomp box.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by slap5string

In either setup - where will the compressor be inserted in the chain?

Where it says "dbx".

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by BrianVengeance

In that scenario I would probably move the compressor before the sansamp...

Except that the dbx in question is meant to operate at line level. Bill and I are saying he's getting poorer results by running an instrument-level signal through the dbx.

[BrianVengeance]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Except that the dbx in question is meant to operate at line level. Bill and I are saying he's getting poorer results by running an instrument-level signal through the dbx.

Agreed, this is with the Sansamp in the fx loop as well. FX send is line level into DBX, then into the Sansamp and back to the return.

Not sure what unit he's using, but RBI input 2 can be padded -20 dB and has a line output. Assuming a similar setup on his unit.

[walterw]

is the sansamp being used to create "grind"? if so, it's already providing a bit of compression, in which case the best place for the DBX is probably back in the storage place.

[slap5string]

Originally Posted by walterw

is the sansamp being used to create "grind"? if so, it's already providing a bit of compression, in which case the best place for the DBX is probably back in the storage place.

I use the compressor to tame sharp transients (clicking / popping string noises) that occur when I attack the strings during aggressive passages. I'm a finger player (think Steve Harris) and love Justin Chancellor's sound though I do not want to emulate it exactly. I set the compressor threshold to a point where it only kicks in during the spikes.

Am I reading these posts correctly....I should run BOTH the sansamp RPM and the compressor through the effects loop?