Silverface Bassman?

Ray-Vigo · #1 12-21-2010, 09:52 AM

I hear plenty about how people use old Bassman amps for guitar, but what about actually using one for bass? I"m specifically thinking about adding a Silverface Bassman head to my stable, but was actually thinking about using it to play bass with. My use would be practice up through small gig type situations, nothing big or outdoors. Are there any suggestions for playing bass through one of these? What about loudness 50 vs 100 vs 135-- do they have enough power and clean headroom for bass use?

JimmyM · #2 12-21-2010, 10:42 AM

i wouldn't use the cab, but old bassman heads are pretty sweet. get yourself a cab that can take bass and it should be a fine rig.

OldogNewTrick · #3 12-21-2010, 11:06 AM

The Silverface Bassman was never a guitar amp. The Bassman's reputation as guitar amp stems from the original 410 combo.
The SF Bassman 100 depends on speaker area and efficiency to crank out the volume. The classic combination is with a 2x15 JBL K140 cabinet. So if you are looking for a cab, find something with a high efficiency and smooth roll-off.

Do a search, you'll find a number of nice Bassman rigs here on TB

Edit: the original cabinet Jimmy is refering to is the 4x12 with inward slanting baffle boards.... utterly useless IMO

Ray-Vigo · #4 12-21-2010, 11:39 AM

That makes sense-- speaker efficiency does have a strong bearing on the sound and volume of the rig. I was particularly looking at the head only right now. Part of it is that I wanted one to get started on the rig as sort of piece-together project, but the other part of it is to hedge against sudden value increases in vintage amps that seem to happen now and then. About 6 years ago I was offered a Princeton Reverb for my guitar for $400 or so. I wish I'd bought it now that they're selling in the $800+ range. I don't want the same to happen with my bass.

Would you guys recommend the 100 watt level for a good medium-power amp head? Any particular vintages or circuits to look for? I know they made the switch to master volume in the mid 70s or so.

AwkwardLoudness · #5 12-21-2010, 12:01 PM

A good condition Silverface Bassman 135 is a great bass amp. Definitely go for a 135 model. The 100 is fine too but I like that little extra wattage for bass.

John D · #6 12-21-2010, 12:23 PM

It depends. I had one and sold it. A couple of weeks later, I went to Kings Dominion amusement park where I heard one of the best sounding bass rigs ever. The band was behind the curtain, and my heart dropped to my stomach when the curtain opened and I saw that the beautiful bass sound was coming from an amp identical to the one I had just sold. The difference was that I was competing with a B-3 Hammond with two Leslie tone cabinets (I was usually sandwiched between the drummer and one of the Leslies) and the young lady at KD was only competing with guitars and a piano playing 50s music.
The Bassman 100 should be loud enough for any bar or small gig (<=200 people), unless you are playing metal, or you are just playing too loud. If not, or for larger venues, put a mike in front of it. By the way, both my Bassman 100 and the one at KD had the 4-12 speaker arrangement with the pyramid baffle. I would suggest a 215 with JBLs (any letter) for the true vintage sound.

JTE · #7 12-21-2010, 12:40 PM

The 135 not only had more power, but was made run cleaner, may or may not sound better, as it's pretty subjective. And, again, they have NOTHING to do with the Bassmans guitarists like. The Bassman for guitar is the early Tweed covered 4x10 ones from the '50s and the very fine reproduction Fender started making around 1988.

If you want to play gigs, I'd skip the 50/70 watt ones and go to one with four 6L6s in the output section. And avoid that awful 4x12. Whether you like the sound or not, that cabinet had some real design problems. The four baffles are caulked and stapled together. The caulk comes out very easily, ruining whatever porting Fender/CBS intended. They start to whistle and rattle, and it's common for the upper baffle to fall out, especially if it had the JBL, Cerwin-Vega, or EV speaker in there.

John

John D · #8 12-21-2010, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

The 135 not only had more power, but was made run cleaner, may or may not sound better, as it's pretty subjective. And, again, they have NOTHING to do with the Bassmans guitarists like. The Bassman for guitar is the early Tweed covered 4x10 ones from the '50s and the very fine reproduction Fender started making around 1988.

If you want to play gigs, I'd skip the 50/70 watt ones and go to one with four 6L6s in the output section. And avoid that awful 4x12. Whether you like the sound or not, that cabinet had some real design problems. The four baffles are caulked and stapled together. The caulk comes out very easily, ruining whatever porting Fender/CBS intended. They start to whistle and rattle, and it's common for the upper baffle to fall out, especially if it had the JBL, Cerwin-Vega, or EV speaker in there.

John

Yeah, that's one reason I suggested the 215 with JBLs. I wonder if anyone ever tried replacing the pyramid baffle with a flat baffle. With the extra depth and proper porting, It may sound good it would probably be cheap, since people seem to dislike them so much.

Billy3000 · #9 12-21-2010, 12:47 PM

I have a friend that has the silverface 50 I think. He uses it with the original 2x15 cab and it sounds amazing. It's very dark and gritty. I love the tone! It wouldn't work for everything, but it works for his band really well. They're kind of like a hybrid of mewithoutyou, Brand New, Manchester Orchestra, all that kind of stuff so that really dark gritty bass tone suits it well.

Ray-Vigo · #10 12-29-2010, 08:37 AM

Good advice here, thanks for this. I'm definitely thinking 100 or 135 head in the new year, at least to set aside and eventually to build my own rig. It's mainly for practice, but may eventually see a small gig or two down the road. I'll start the search up a little bit.

s_mcsleazy · #11 12-29-2010, 08:42 AM

my main is a bassman 50 and its often too loud

so its pure awesomeness

theres enough pics of it on here though

JTE · #12 12-29-2010, 09:49 AM

Also, I'd completely avoid the Bassman 50/70 2x15 cabinet. That's the one that was only slightly taller and wider than most modern 4x10, but a LOT more shallow. It's got the speakers mounted diagonally so they'll fit into the small cabinet. That box is simply too small for a pair of 15" speakers.

John

zachoff · #13 12-29-2010, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ray-Vigo

I hear plenty about how people use old Bassman amps for guitar, but what about actually using one for bass? I"m specifically thinking about adding a Silverface Bassman head to my stable, but was actually thinking about using it to play bass with. My use would be practice up through small gig type situations, nothing big or outdoors. Are there any suggestions for playing bass through one of these? What about loudness 50 vs 100 vs 135-- do they have enough power and clean headroom for bass use?

My first question would be "How much power is 'enough'?" My Bassman 135 wasn't loud enough through my 810 for my band but we're super loud. I'd say if you're in a band that's not super loud then the 135 with a good amount of speakers will get you by in a small room. Anything more than 100-200 people or so and you'll need PA support.

As far as tone goes, I loved it. I loved the tone more than my SVT. There is a definite falling off point where it turns from a nice biting dirt to muddy fart though, and it's abrupt. Be careful not to hang on that edge too much or you'll be bummed on it.

I bridged my two channels, had volumes on 5-6, the tones at 2,10,2 and the master at about 7 before it'd start to fart out.

jimbilly · #14 12-29-2010, 11:23 AM

The late '60s SF Bassman 50s I've had have a guitar input 'side' and a bass 'side'. Great guitar amp, great lower power bass amp, I played it through a couple of different cabinets. I also had a '66 Dual Showman with 2x15 JBL loaded Fender cabinet (stock, Fcode JBLs), -that was a cool bass rig. That head was also awesome through a modern 8x10 cabinet.
It looks to me like nice silverface Bassman 50s sell for about $400-$500, Blackface Bassman50s sell for about $500-$700, Blackface DualShowman heads sell for about $700-$1000. Unless the price is really great on the Silverface amp, spend the extra $100 and get a Blackface head.
If you think you want some more headroom, Dual Showmans are a bargain in my opinion. Btw, the 'Dual' just means it will handle a 4ohm load, and some Showmans that didn't say 'dual' have the 4ohm output transformer.

blackba · #15 12-29-2010, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimbilly

The late '60s SF Bassman 50s I've had have a guitar input 'side' and a bass 'side'. Great guitar amp, great lower power bass amp, I played it through a couple of different cabinets. I also had a '66 Dual Showman with 2x15 JBL loaded Fender cabinet (stock, Fcode JBLs), -that was a cool bass rig. That head was also awesome through a modern 8x10 cabinet.
It looks to me like nice silverface Bassman 50s sell for about $400-$500, Blackface Bassman50s sell for about $500-$700, Blackface DualShowman heads sell for about $700-$1000. Unless the price is really great on the Silverface amp, spend the extra $100 and get a Blackface head.
If you think you want some more headroom, Dual Showmans are a bargain in my opinion. Btw, the 'Dual' just means it will handle a 4ohm load, and some Showmans that didn't say 'dual' have the 4ohm output transformer.

The Dual showmans are another great option and they were made in the Blackface era, which means they are more likely to go up in value. Fender Blackface and Silverface heads are generally pretty inexpensive compared to Fender guitar amp combos. Buying a SF amp head and expecting it to go up much in price, is not really optimistic. For an investiment the BF dual showman really is the best choice.

I had a '67 SF bassman (one of the first SF amps). I plugged it into my 4ohm Ampeg SVT-410HLF and tried it through my 4ohm Ampeg BXT210M, it sounded good through both, kind of that cream wooly bass sound. Very vintage sounding, not alot of headroom with my Fender Jazz bass. Just for kicks I tried my '69 Fender Bandmaster Reverb and it was horrible for bass. No headroom what so ever. For kicks I tried my Mesa mark IV and that actually sounded very good. It is now my backup bass amp. Thinking outside the box, you can get Mesa mark III amps for pretty cheap on the used market, something to consider.

http://www.ampwares.com/fender.asp