Simply clueless about 12ax7 tubes in an Orange Bass Terror!

[Gord]

Hi guys,
I just bought an orange bass terror, which has two 12ax7 preamp tubes. I've read several places that the stock tubes are muddy and not that great. I knew going in that I wanted to change the tubes, but I have NO idea about where to start!

I've read a lot that the RCA 12ax7 tubes are great - in guitar applications! I play in a pop punk band, but we tune down quite a bit - drop C#, I suppose. I play a Geddy Lee jazz nto two eden D410T cabs. With the current orange, I get a weird farty bottoming out with the current tubes. What tubes should I look into for nice thick deep end, but still want to keep the jazz bass punchiness. I also like a bit of natural distortion and grit. What tubes should I look into?

[Calaverasgrande]

tubes do not necessarily sound the same from amp to amp. One amps puncjy and bright may be muddy and farty in another.
That said, RCA's are my favorite 12ax7a. Though they are kinda on the expensive side since they aren't made anymore AND audiophile seem to like them as well. I have one early 60's RCA that I only pull out for recording sessions. That fella is the Mel Torme of tubes.
My favorite cheap tube are the JJ Tesla ECC83. they are very punchy and have kind of a bit of tooth to them. Aggressive without sounding brash
I wouldn't expect a night and day revolutionary difference from changing your tubes though. In my experience the difference between various preamp tubes are subtle shades, not black and white. It is more to do with texture than bass-middle-treble response.

[Staccato]

The two 12AX7 tubes in your amp have different purposes. So, you don't necessarily want the same tube in both positions.

Why don't you edit--advanced, and include Orange Terror in the thread title. You might invite more responses.

[snaverb]

No experience with Orange amps, but I put JJ's in my svt and it sounds really good

[Bassmec]

Dont Be a Dullard!, Fit a Mullard!

[Gord]

Stacatto - thank you!
But, the different purposes thing has me even MORE confused! In a setup like this, where there are just the two tubes, what would the different purposes be?

[AwkwardLoudness]

I've bought and tried hundreds of pre-amp tubes to see what sounds best in my amps and also to have plenty of spares. My favorites are Telefunken long smooth plate ECC83 (European name for 12AX7), Amperex Bugle Box ECC83 short ribbed gray plate Made in Holland, Mullard ECC83 long plate D-getter from the Blackburn factory, RCA 12AX7A long ribbed plate, and GE 7025 12AX7.

The Orange Terror Bass may like other tubes more than those. I don't know. Some tubes sound better in certain amps.

I suggest buying a few vitnage 12AX7/ECC83 tubes and try different combinations of them to hear for what sounds best.

Originally Posted by Gord

But, the different purposes thing has me even MORE confused! In a setup like this, where there are just the two tubes, what would the different purposes be?

I suspect that one tube is the first gain stage and the other tube is a later gain stage. Either that, or the two tubes are the first gain stage in separate channels. I'm not sure how the circuit incorporates the tubes in that amp. I've never played the Terror Bass.

[Calaverasgrande]

Also to clarify, each 12ax7a/ECC83 is actually two gain stages in one package. So one tube may cover the input gain and the EQ, the second may cover master volume and also drive the power section. Thats a gross oversimplification of course.
I wouldnt get too in over your head on preamp tubes. Vintage tubes can easily run into $100 each. Start by playing around with Electro-Harmonix, JJ-Tesla, Sovtek etc. There is enough difference there to whet your whistle. I'd also spend some time gettign to know what the internal structure of the tuebs looks like. After a while it is pretty easy to recognize a Shunagang Sino tube and a New Sensor Russian tube just by the halo.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

I've bought and tried hundreds of pre-amp tubes to see what sounds best in my amps and also to have plenty of spares. My favorites are Telefunken long smooth plate ECC83 (European name for 12AX7), Amperex Bugle Box ECC83 short ribbed gray plate Made in Holland, Mullard ECC83 long plate D-getter from the Blackburn factory, RCA 12AX7A long ribbed plate, and GE 7025 12AX7.

I have to agree that theTele's, Amperex, and Mullard's that I've tried in Ampegs and Mesa WA sound the best and in that same order. Don't have extensive experience with RCA or GE's but have yet to find anything better than the above 3 while testing the same amp, same bass, same cab, same day, etc.
BTW, I am referencing either used tubes or NOS and not the reissues. Most of my Tele's and Mullards are rebranded tubes from either Eico or Dynaco hi-fi gear. Expect to pay $30 to $50 each for a good used tube.
Have no experience with how sensitive an Orange head is to tube swapping but do know that the differences are reasonaly small with an SWR.

[BZadlo]

I also just picked up an Orange Terror Bass.
I love the amp but usually run it with the gain at 9:00, bass at about 8:00, mids at 11:00 and treble at 3:00.
I love a dirty tone but would like to be able to dial in something cleaner with greater ease.
I tried a Mesa Russian 12AX7 that I had lying around last night in both stages. It seemed like the tube to the left had a greater effect on the tone. Seemed to cut the lows and gain just a bit. The difference was very very subtle. If I were playing with a band I probably wouldn't even notice the difference.
I'm planning to get 2 JJ ECC83's or JJ ECC803 High Performance and 2 Preferred 7025's from thetubestore.com just to mess around.
I'm very interested in anyone's feedback on their experience with tube swapping and the Orange Terror Bass too.

[Bunyo]

For me ( Mesa 400+) and my guitarist ( JCM800) the best 12ax7 is currently produced Tung-Sol. We ve checked EH, JJ, Sovtek, Ruby but Tung Sol has a decent rock sound with great overdrive. I was talking to Lord Valve and he says that in his opninion Tung Sol 12ax7 is probably the best currently produced 12ax7.

[AwkwardLoudness]

Originally Posted by BZadlo

I also just picked up an Orange Terror Bass.
I love the amp but usually run it with the gain at 9:00, bass at about 8:00, mids at 11:00 and treble at 3:00.
I love a dirty tone but would like to be able to dial in something cleaner with greater ease.
I tried a Mesa Russian 12AX7 that I had lying around last night in both stages. It seemed like the tube to the left had a greater effect on the tone. Seemed to cut the lows and gain just a bit. The difference was very very subtle. If I were playing with a band I probably wouldn't even notice the difference.
I'm planning to get 2 JJ ECC83's or JJ ECC803 High Performance and 2 Preferred 7025's from thetubestore.com just to mess around.
I'm very interested in anyone's feedback on their experience with tube swapping and the Orange Terror Bass too.

You might try some 12AT7 (ECC81) or even 12AU7 (ECC82) tubes for lower gain.

[BZadlo]

Originally Posted by AwkwardLoudness

You might try some 12AT7 (ECC81) or even 12AU7 (ECC82) tubes for lower gain.

The AT7 is somewhere in between the AX7 and AU7, right (as far as gain goes)?

[i_g55]

Same concerns with BZadlo... Great amp, but a bit too heavy low-end.

Anything new since April? Any recommendations for Orange Terror Bass?

[Chef]

IIRC, V1 covers input gain and treble, V2 covers mids and bass.

I didn't tube swap when I had one.

[Scabz]

i changed over to a sovtek 12ax7 in 1 and a 12ax7eh in 2 and its screamed with plenty of gain and allowed alot more control over the tone.

[BZadlo]

Which tube is v.1 and which is v.2?

[johnk_10]

V1 should be the closest to the input jack, and that's the one that usually makes the biggest difference in tone & gain.

if you want more clean, i'd go with an NOS 5751.

[johnk_10]

BTW, as far as NOS tubes go, Telefunkens are my personal favorite, followed by Amperex 'bugle boys', RCA's and Mullards (they all are great tubes). as far as the new RI's go, the Tung-sol 12AX7 is probably my favorite, as well as the JJ ECC803S and Sovtek LPS.

for V1, you generally want a noise free and non microphonic tube in that position.

[BZadlo]

The tubes in mine are extremely microphonic. They ring like crazy when you tap on the chassis anywhere.

Could I use a 12AU7 in v2?