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  #1  
Old 07-03-2010, 06:04 PM
MarkA's Avatar
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Single, 2x12" cab in search of a mate (head)!

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Cliffs notes:
Looking for a head to match the 2x12 cab detailed below. Considering (mostly used): MARKBASS (SD800, F1/500, LMII), GENZ (ShuttleMax 12 & 6, Shuttle 9.0), GK (MB500), CARVIN (BX500), Acoustic Image and iAmp800 heads (2 ohms!). Maybe used Thunderfunk/AMP heads. Mesa? Open to other suggestions. Points for portability.

EDIT: A possibility I'd not considered before: a separate, lightweight power amp and pre -- but I'm pretty at sea there.


Full text:
I just received the 2x12” Dr. Bass cab I bought here from TBer Jeff Scott, and am looking for a nice, preferably easily portable head to go with it. I'd appreciate your help.

The cab is 4 ohms, 1000W RMS, with neodymium Faital Pro drivers and a 6” instead of a tweeter (no tweeter!).

I play a Fender P/J bass with active EMG pickups and like to slap, though I'm tonally more sympatico w/ Flea than Marcus Miller. I'm looking for something that will work well live and for recording, and let me move from slap solos in a band on one end to supporting acoustic guitar and voice, maybe strings, on the other.

I’ve got a Markbass SD800 and a LMII*, recently bought used, coming next week to try with the cab.

Impressions:
In the last month, I've tried an old GK 2000RB, a Little Mark III, and a Genz 9.0, all through an Ampeg 410 HE cab (8 ohms). (I tried everything I could get my hands on, but these are the standouts.)

The beat-up GK was my favorite overall. I liked the tones of other amps, but this was the only one that made me want to play. Not as fat as the Genz 9.0, or the most even across the strings (watch that popped G!), but more complex, more interesting to listen to. Harmonics and bridge-pickup chords were surprisingly clean and pleasant, and the slap sound was easily the most authoritative. (The only other amp that gave me a similar sense of cut -- and even more heft, albeit with a different tonal signature -- was a Genz GBE 750 through a 4 ohm, 410 HLF – thunderous, but an unfair comparison). 2000RB knocks: big and unwieldy, had life-threatening mechanical issues… I tried a new 1001RBII in the store to see if I could get the same tone and was disappointed.

The Genz was smoother and fatter, particularly up high on the G-string, than either the GK or the Mark, and had a nice, articulate slap sound at moderate volume, but as I pushed it and the yellow, “soft clip” light came on, I lost the articulation of slapped notes on the E-string. Bugged me and made me feel I had to work harder. Didn’t have as much time with this head… if I could find a way around this w/different settings, it’d be much more appealing, as I liked the tone otherwise.

The Markbass was really loud, but a love/hate thing with the tone – there was a sizzle and a synthetic quality that was always present to varying degrees (less so through the Ampeg than the Markbass 210 combo speakers). On the other hand, the more I played with it, the more appealing/useable sounds I was able to get. Little Brother 1 liked the way it "filled the spaces" w/electric guitar (combo). Little Brother 2 liked its slap sound the best. Noisier D.I. than the Genz – noticed it in a recording, not sure if I would live.

Other heads I’m considering, in something approaching the order in which I’m considering them:
Genz Benz – Max 12, Max 6, 9.0 (FET channel, more flexible EQ of Max series intrigue me – couldn’t use more than half the Max 12’s non-bridgeable juice without a second cab, though).

Markbass – F1/F500 (if I like the tone of the SD800 but decide 500W is plenty).

GK MB500, Carvin BX500. Used Acoustic Image. Used iAmp 800s, and Thunderfunk/AMP/related heads (on the bigger side). TC Staccato (flashing lights! presets!). Used Mesa M6 or M9 (solely because another player said, “Man, you should definitely look into those.” They're bigger and a tonal unknown to me).

I am open to other ideas, and especially to the insights of those more experienced than I am – I think I’m a decent (and improving) player, but I’ve neither heard nor played the majority of these heads in person and most of my live performance experience (since high-school, anyway) is playing orchestral and chamber music.

I’d like to keep comments to people who have some experience with the head they’re discussing, and some basis for an idea of how it’d work with a cabinet like mine – my head is already swimming with conjecture, and I’ve got to be careful of how much more I put into it!

Many thanks in advance.
-Mark

* actually a mini-CMD121P combo I’m considering modding so the head can be easily removed, ala Genz Shuttle combos. If it works, it’d give me a main rig and a grab-n-go “lunchbox.”

Last edited by MarkA : 07-03-2010 at 06:40 PM.
  #2  
Old 07-03-2010, 06:51 PM
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Do you plan on ever pairing up that 2x12 with a second cab?
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2010, 07:12 PM
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that's a cool cab!
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2010, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig.p View Post
Do you plan on ever pairing up that 2x12 with a second cab?
Not sure. Not for awhile, at any rate. Two reasons:

1) I don't yet know what it can do on its own. I'll have a better idea in a week, when I have some heads to play with it!

2) I'm getting back into electric bass playing after a long time -- more than a decade -- away. Been at it about a month, and getting plenty of practice. Even have a project lined up. I know that I'm going to be playing out and gigging at some point -- but to what extent, with whom, and in which venues is still unknown to me.

I could see adding a well-matched 15" underneath it for something outdoors at some point, but that would be some way off and based on stuff I don't know now.

Good question -- sorry I don't have a better answer!
  #5  
Old 07-03-2010, 07:26 PM
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really nice cab! i saw it online the other day
  #6  
Old 07-03-2010, 08:39 PM
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Hey, what does this knob do?
 
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If that cab is 4 ohms, then adding a second cab will require an amp that can drive a 2-ohm load. Or it'll require a second amp.

If you go with a preamp/power-amp setup, assuming it's a stereo power amp, then you can use one channel of the power amp for the time being, and then use its second channel if/when you get a second cab.

Just trying to future-proof.
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2010, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig.p View Post
If that cab is 4 ohms, then adding a second cab will require an amp that can drive a 2-ohm load. Or it'll require a second amp.

If you go with a preamp/power-amp setup, assuming it's a stereo power amp, then you can use one channel of the power amp for the time being, and then use its second channel if/when you get a second cab.

Just trying to future-proof.
Thanks, Craig.

Yeah, the cab is 4 ohms. On the one hand, it's like "4 ohms, yeah! I can get full power out of my amp!" On the other, what you said (that's what's appealing about the iAmp and some other heads -- a 2.67 ohm load with an 8 ohm 15" should be fine).

This looks to be a very efficient, potentially very loud single cab (especially if I can drive it anywhere near its powerhandling capability) and, if I can do things with one cab, great. (I was initially looking at things like the lightweight GK combos for just this reason.) I might never need or want another cab. If I plan on one cab, lots more amps (like the incoming SD800) open up as possibilities -- but I have to find another, well matched amp if I add a second cab later on.

Now, I just did something naughty: I bought a ShuttleMax 12.0. I got an unexpectedly good deal on it -- I finally tried one of those "Best offer" things I'd always ignored on eBay -- and should be able to recoup my costs if it doesn't work out. The second "amp" is there, but I sure wish this thing was bridgeable. I won't be able to get any more out of it for now than I would a Max 6.0 (600 watts into the 4 ohm cab), but I can add another 4 ohm cab, or two 8 ohm cabs, if I need to later.

Now, we'll have to see how the 600W-for-now and expandability of the Max 12 stack up against the 750W-right-now of the SD800 (and, of course, how their tones compare). I realize I'm going into this not knowing what'll serve me as well as if I had more experience and a definite path for my bass playing. Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself altogether. I'm trying to keep it in check by buying good used stuff (Max 12 is the only new piece so far). I can't afford to keep all these amps, and can't afford to take a big hit when I sell those that don't make the cut!

This all amounts to a self-financed trial of things I can't get locally... I'd probably have been better off to get in the car and spend a weekend in Chicago trying out gear -- or at least revisit my local music stores and try something with this cab before going nuts -- but what's done is done.

That said, I can't afford to invest in any more amp! Well, not much more, anyway (nervous grin)... However sweet the deals, I've submitted to the GAS pretty bad so far(). I will post detailed impressions of everything I try, though... later. For now, I'll step away from the computer -- I'm young enough yet I should be doing something else on a Saturday night!

Last edited by MarkA : 07-03-2010 at 09:46 PM. Reason: I didn't even know what "GAS" was until two weeks ago.
  #8  
Old 07-03-2010, 09:45 PM
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As for the pre/power amp thing -- the idea seems nice and flexible. Can you get as much tonal flexibility/quality out of one of those SansAmp deals (or whatever) as a head like the Genz or Markbass? Are there disadvantages I don't see? I've read everything I could about dedicated bass amps, but haven't researched the power/pre option.
  #9  
Old 07-03-2010, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkA View Post
Now, I just did something naughty: I bought a ShuttleMax 12.0. I got an unexpectedly good deal on it -- I finally tried one of those "Best offer" things I'd always ignored on eBay -- and should be able to recoup my costs if it doesn't work out. The second "amp" is there, but I sure wish this thing was bridgeable. I won't be able to get any more out of it for now than I would a Max 6.0 (600 watts into the 4 ohm cab), but I can add another 4 ohm cab, or two 8 ohm cabs, if I need to later.
Nothing wrong with experimenting. But dude, with all due respect, I could tell from your first post that you're a little OCD...

Stop overthinking this. The ShuttleMax is an excellent amp to use with almost any 4-ohm 2x12 that has a decent amount of sensitivity - especially one that tends toward the boutique side of the equilibrium. And if you decide to get another equivalent 2x12, you've already got another 600 watts in reserve.

Keep looking and keep wringing your hands, if you must. But I think you're already done. You just don't realize it yet...

MM
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Last edited by MysticMichael : 07-03-2010 at 10:10 PM.
  #10  
Old 07-04-2010, 08:49 AM
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A Mesa walkabout head paired with your new 212 would be a thing of real beauty, and a very beautiful sound.
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  #11  
Old 07-04-2010, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticMichael View Post
Nothing wrong with experimenting. But dude, with all due respect, I could tell from your first post that you're a little OCD...
MM
Touché. I am prone to these little kicks from time to time. They pass, sometimes sooner, sometimes later. This one's been a bit protracted.

I've been slow to realize that I just have to get a good rig now. I can even put in the time/trouble to make it a very good rig. But if I try to make it the perfect-for-all-time rig -- lightweight, loud, flexible, expandable, and the tones matched in heaven -- all at the first shot, I'll never get to the point where I'm actually playing music through it. I can always refine my setup later if I have to.

And then, I've been trying these amps "on paper" -- only so far you can go with that. That's why I said a trip to Chicago earlier in the process might've been good for me.

In a few days, I'll have two Markbass amps and the Genz to try with this cab. I'll get to play them side-by-side (always nice), see how I like things, and go from there. I might keep experimenting, at a more relaxed rate -- maybe I'll look into the Walkabout head Rickenboogie mentions -- but I'll dial back the drama in any case! (Been a long while since I did any of this -- I did get a little excited.)

I appreciate all the info/help available on these forums -- I'm certainly going to end up with a better setup than I would've without it. Any (more) insights, meanwhile, are welcome!
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