Small Cabinet? Need more bass? no problem

[seamonkey]

Waves | Hardware | MaxxBass 102
Waves | Hardware | MaxxBass 107

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Yes?

Coming from someone else, I'd probably understand this thread.
From You and without an emoticon, sir, You sure do puzzle me.

Regards
Sam

[seamonkey]

$150 for the MaxxBass 107 - that's $450 cheaper than last month.
They make that much on the plugin versions. I'm sure it's a close out since every FOH seems to be going plugin route.

The next step up is the MaxxBCL is $3700

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Ok, that makes sense.

I have no use for a system like that, so I haven't paid any attention to the prices.

Regards
Sam

[JimmyM]

still have to have a cab that can handle it.

[christw]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Waves | Hardware | MaxxBass 107

Glorified crossover?

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

Waves | Hardware | MaxxBass 102
Waves | Hardware | MaxxBass 107

Pitty it doesn't have a variable phase control and low pass filter then it would be great for a subwoofer.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by christw

Glorified crossover?

No, very far from that.

It's a pschycoacoustic processor. Very handy thing to have if You want the PA (/rig) to be small and to go low (kind of).

Perhaps when I'm old enough, I'll need one as well .

Regards
Sam

[tdub0199]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

still have to have a cab that can handle it.

^ THIS ^ If your cab can't handle it, it's useless.....

[Plstrns]

Originally Posted by tdub0199

^ THIS ^ If your cab can't handle it, it's useless.....

MAXX bass doesn't increase the sub frequencies reproduced by the cab. It tricks your ears into believing the cab is reproducing lower frequencies.

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by Plstrns

MAXX bass doesn't increase the sub frequencies reproduced by the cab. It tricks your ears into believing the cab is reproducing lower frequencies.

This allready happens in yer brain. Just like your cellphone, your brain adds the missing sub-harmonic content.
So how does this device work then? add sub-harmonic content? No, you say the device does not do that.
So what does it do then? add "other" harmonic content like an advanced octaver(which also can add "one-octave-below" content)?

[Foz]

So what does it do then? add "other" harmonic content?

yes

[Arjank]

Originally Posted by Foz

yes

So, in fact it's the same as what a cheap speakers does, add lots of harmonic distortion which some call "pseudo bass".

[4Mal]

Originally Posted by seamonkey

$150 for the MaxxBass 107 - that's $450 cheaper than last month.
They make that much on the plugin versions. I'm sure it's a close out since every FOH seems to be going plugin route.

The next step up is the MaxxBCL is $3700

Cool - Wish I could find the MaxxBass103 - now I have to go looking .... my old Subbie uses a 6x9 sub in a tiny space, not a lot of good options for that unless you go external which I can't.

Originally Posted by JimmyM

still have to have a cab that can handle it.

um, watch the video ?

Originally Posted by christw

Glorified crossover?

um, watch the video ?

Originally Posted by Arjank

Pitty it doesn't have a variable phase control and low pass filter then it would be great for a subwoofer.

um, watch the video ?

Originally Posted by tdub0199

^ THIS ^ If your cab can't handle it, it's useless.....

um, watch the video ?

Originally Posted by Arjank

So, in fact it's the same as what a cheap speakers does, add lots of harmonic distortion which some call "pseudo bass".

distortion ? from Waves ? These guys are pretty highly regarded in the Pro Tools world among other places. Sure, reducing the fundamental and then doing an adback on the harmonics is a form of distortion but if used properly, you're aren't likely to recognize it as such. So in this way it isn't really like a cheap speaker at all...

[Arjank]

distortion ? from Waves ? These guys are pretty highly regarded in the Pro Tools world among other places. Sure, reducing the fundamental and then doing an adback on the harmonics is a form of distortion but if used properly, you're aren't likely to recognize it as such. So in this way it isn't really like a cheap speaker at all...

If an audio system (speaker, amp, etc) adds harmonic content by itself it is called distortion.

There are cases where people thought the bass of a certain speaker went deeper then some other speaker but what they really heard was the distortion the speaker produced while in reality the other speaker produced more "real" deep bass but had way less distortion.
But, this device does it in a sort of "controlled" way. And I guess these people know what they are doing and it probably sounds good to the ear.

[Bass_Pounder]

So....................

Putting the 107 in your rack would make your rig sound deeper/fuller, while at the same time protecting your cabs from subharmonic content ?

Would it be run in the effects loop ?

Before or after a compressor ?

[seamonkey]

Yes - it re-arranges the strength of the harmonics to "fool" your ear into hearing up to an octave and a half lower than what's actually being produced.

In case you're wondering - it would actually add distortion to sine waves, since sine waves have no harmonics. Bass waveforms and music waveforms do have harmonics that can be re-arranged.

Now waves calls it a psychoacoustic but there is some evidence that this is how ears work. I had a link to some articles on low frequencies and ears, the cochlear is not 4ft long so our ears do special things to hear low notes. This was some medical article but I can't find it. I have another link on Maxxbass and questioning if it's phychoacoustic or physical effect.
Untitled Document

Big FOH rigs use this to cut down on the number of subs they have to carry, also their subs don't have to go down to low frequencies. Movies use this a lot. You probably notice this the most on some hip hop songs that have a really low note coming out of your car or tv speaker.

The plugin version has a free trial. Try it before condemning it. It is best to tune it to your cabinet. The plugin gives you precise control over the frequencies. The standalone needs ear tuning. The plugin allows you to a/b several different presets or bypass. You can run the output through a spectrum analyzer and see that it is not actually adding bass - but you will hear more bass. The plugin also lets you run only high pass filter mode, or mix the original and maxxbass at any levels.

Peavey/Crest includes MaxxBass on the DSP version of their new amps. Smart move.
Maybe that's why Waves is closing these out. Because they're selling chips to OEM's and they don't want to compete with their own OEM's. Smart move if so.

[seamonkey]

Originally Posted by Bass_Pounder

So....................

Putting the 107 in your rack would make your rig sound deeper/fuller, while at the same time protecting your cabs from subharmonic content ?

Would it be run in the effects loop ?

Before or after a compressor ?

I'd put it right before the amp. So any subharmonics are filtered out. Sometimes switching effects or settings on effects sends a thud through - let the Maxxbass unit catch these.

[seamonkey]

Waves has some flash demos that point out the importance of tuning MaxxBass for the cabinet. The extreme case is laptop speakers or a cell phone. These probably cut off at 200hz or 300hz. Using the same settings for a laptop or full range bass cabinet does not work out.

On the below links. If you listen to the laptop setting using headphones it will sound bas as you will cut the real bass off at 200hz, and boost the mids.


Headphones
http://www.maxx.com/Objects/MaxxDemo...Headphones.swf

Laptop Speakers
http://www.maxx.com/Objects/MaxxDemo...opSpeakers.swf

Small Speakers
http://www.maxx.com/Objects/MaxxDemo...llSpeakers.swf

Big Speakers
http://www.maxx.com/Objects/MaxxDemo...igSpeakers.swf

In most practical scenarios, Small Speaker, Large Speaker, Headphone - MaxxBass can be tuned to be relatively generic, but the knobs are there for fine tuning.

If you know your cabinets measurements you can set it precisely. The hardware has a "freeze" settings, so a single preset. The software has many presets, and you can pick up templates from top producers and FOH engineers.

Both can be a high pass filter and protect your speakers, and make that power available for more Volume.

It will cut the boom in rooms. You'll cut through the mix and still sound like full bass. It's not going to set off sympathetic vibrations from objects sensitive to low bass. If set up right, you won't be getting the "Turn the Bass down" shout when you can barely hear yourself.

The "home model" MaxxBass 102 is $99, and if you use locking RCA plugs, it's be fine for most use, the insides are mostly the same.
Dayton Audio RCAGS-LK Locking RCA Plug Solder Type 2 Pair

The more I think about it, the new Peavey or Crest power amp with Waves Maxx built in are looking better than ever. I'm going to have to go give one a try.

[Foz]

But, this device does it in a sort of "controlled" way. And I guess these people know what they are doing and it probably sounds good to the ear.

Yes... They know what they are doing. It certainly works, try it you'll see. Though it can have artifacts if pushed it aint snake oil. While not a best practice substitute for a sub, it absolutely can increase the perception of low end output IME.