Small Room Issues - What Really Works?

[Interceptor]

We just booked a boatload of gigs at venues where we will be in small rooms setting up on the floor - no stage or risers. I've had trouble in the past in those situations, and at least I might understand why. Our producer calls it the "Jim wall." One side of it, and there I am, the other side and I'm gone.

My context is relatively low volume and my role is putting a solid bed under acoustic musicians. My tone profile is classic clean and full, and I usually play a five string.

I think what's really happening is that with a rig set up at knee level, that the mids are getting snuffed by our happy room full of people. The last few years my countermeasure for those rooms has been to just suck it up and go PA only.

I'd like to go back to rig only for those rooms, but need some help in making sure the wall is gone. I'm considering tilting back the cabinet and laying a heap of eq on the mids (say 300 - 800 Hz) and go with that.

Am I on the right track? I'm also curious what others of you have done and won with in small crowded rooms.

Jim

[klaus486]

Maybe raise the speaker cab closer to ear level while standing?

[jungleheat]

Raise the cab up and still feed at least a little bass into the PA.

[shoot-r]

Originally Posted by Interceptor

I think what's really happening is that with a rig set up at knee level, that the mids are getting snuffed by our happy room full of people. The last few years my countermeasure for those rooms has been to just suck it up and go PA only.



Jim

I had a some-what similiar problem, (and a few other sound problems as well.)

BillF from here at T.B. suggested I try "two", 210 cabinets stacked as a vertical 410.

I went with two Avatar Neo 210 cabinets.

Stacked as a vertical 410 I get better mids dispersion, less phase problems, better projection, and the height advantage of a large/tall cabinet by getting the top driver up near my ears.
Since I can hear myself much better I've been able to bring my stage volume down some and not lose the mids definition.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by klaus486

Maybe raise the speaker cab closer to ear level while standing?

+1. I play a gig once a month in this type of situation - set up on the floor by the front windows of a small, bistro type of venue, tables 10ft in front of the band. I use a Roland DB700 combo on a tilt back stand, about 12 inches of the ground. This is where I think the bass combo shines, if you can find one you like the sound of. The Roland is 275 watts, one 15 and a tweet. Perfect for this type of gig, imho.

[JimmyM]

How many sources do you have for low end? In a small room, low end should only come from one point in the room to minimize comb filtering and creation of power alleys. Sounds like your volume is right on track for the room. Ya, could definitely be that you need to tilt your rig up. If your PA has the guns to handle bass at your volumes, that's the best solution, though, as long as you only use one sub...cuts down on comb filtering that way.

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

How many sources do you have for low end? In a small room, low end should only come from one point in the room to minimize comb filtering and creation of power alleys. Sounds like your volume is right on track for the room. Ya, could definitely be that you need to tilt your rig up. If your PA has the guns to handle bass at your volumes, that's the best solution, though, as long as you only use one sub...cuts down on comb filtering that way.

I've been completely in the PA for some time, so one source of LF. Our volume is well controlled - which has helped us get the steady work currently enjoyed. Maybe I ought to just stay put as is, It is just I know there's better tone in a rig.

[JimmyM]

You could always buy a B-15

[john m]

A Markbass 121 comb works great for those type of gigs.

If you stack it on a 112 extension cab, you won't need to be in the PA and having one speaker closer to your ear will make hearing yourself CLEARLY an easy reality.

[Thumper]

Originally Posted by john m

A Markbass 121 comb works great for those type of gigs.

If you stack it on a 112 extension cab, you won't need to be in the PA and having one speaker closer to your ear will make hearing yourself CLEARLY an easy reality.

This or a Markbass cmd210p. I am in a low volume country band and mine really works well. Of course the Zon 5/1 loaded withTI flats doesn't hurt either since the TIs are mid heavy and so is the Zon

[Interceptor]

Originally Posted by Thumper

the Zon 5/1 loaded withTI flats doesn't hurt either since the TIs are mid heavy and so is the Zon

Hmmm, there's something I might have slept through. I'm running a different bass than last time I tried a rig in a small room. I've got a TI loaded Barker these days - it's got lots more energy in the mids than what I used prior.

[Downunderwonder]

Straight into PA works for me.