So is it a huge misconception to assume that setting all the knobs at noon is "flat"?

[Harper]

In almost 2 decades of playing, hundreds of gigs, and several different amps, I've never given it much thought. I've always used noon as my starting point and assumed that was close to flat. I guess it doesn't matter as long as I like the sound I"m getting, but it would be nice to know!

[ihixulu]

It depends on the voicing of the amp. Some heads, for example SWR or something based on the Fender tone stack, have built in EQ curves so knobs set at noon does not equal a flat frequency transfer from the front end of the pre to the power amp.

[Harper]

I'm currently using Markbass amps.

[bongomania]

Blanket correct answer: yes, it is absolutely a misconception to think that "noon" always = flat. Not only is there often "pre-voicing" as ixihulu says, but there are different popular types of EQ circuit where noon has nothing to do with it. There are even some EQ's where there really is no "flat" setting, just "kinda flatter".

[fdeck]

You can see an example of a non-flat amp voicing in my little review of the GK Backline 600 head, along with the response when I made my best attempt to dial it flat. I did all of this in the name of research, since I don't think that ruler-flat response is any kind of holy grail for bass amplification.

[Bluesy Soul]

The answer to your question is "Yes, it can be a HUGE misconception."

E.g., I own an Alembic F-1X preamp, an all-time classic based on the Fender tone stack. The owner's guide explains that though there is no true "flat" setting, values of 2, 10 and 2, respectively, on the bass, midrange and treble controls come closer than anything else. http://www.alembic.com/support/F-1Xoperatingguide.pdf

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Yes.

Usually the pre-voicing is what gives the amp or tone-stack its character or characteristic tone.

Regards
Sam

[seamonkey]

Only on PA/FOH is Noon, "0" flat

Bass heads are made so knobs at noon are voiced by the manufacturer to give a signature sound that can lock you into buying when trying it in a store. Or now, when you first plug it in out of the box when bought on the internet. It's that first impression that is important.

I suspect many heads/pre-amps can't be dialed in flat, and I doubt anyone would like "flat".

[jmattbassplaya]

Technically, yes, that is incorrect. However, so many people use the term incorrectly that it might as well be correct. I'd venture a guess that 99% of all amp users would set an amp's EQ to 12 o'clock noon if you told them to set the amp flat.

This is honestly one of those things I think some people on TB need to ease up on

[Dave M]

I've never thought of "noon" as flat, but rather as a common starting point that is mid-way between the extent of adjustment. Sometimes it works, some other times .......

[JimmyM]

There are a handful of amps that actually do read flat with the knobs at noon, but then you add cabs to the equation and that all goes to hell anyway, so whatever. I'll always start out with an unfamiliar rig with controls at noon, though...just seems like an easy starting point. But I always end up moving knobs.

[jmattbassplaya]

Pretty cool to see 'endorsing ampeg' underneath your name, Jimmy!

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

Pretty cool to see 'endorsing ampeg' underneath your name, Jimmy!

I like it Thanks JMatt!!

[Pilgrim]

Flat or not, it's as good a place to start as any.

[fdeck]

Originally Posted by jmattbassplaya

This is honestly one of those things I think some people on TB need to ease up on

I used to be much more of a snob about this than I am now. Today, I am merely curious about how different amps are voiced, just because I am generally interested in amp design. But I wouldn't pressure anybody into choosing a particular voicing -- flat or otherwise -- for themselves.

[bongomania]

Exactly, I don't claim that "flatter is better", but I do think it's worthwhile to know where flat IS as a reference point.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by bongomania

Exactly, I don't claim that "flatter is better", but I do think it's worthwhile to know where flat IS as a reference point.

Why?

Not saying if a flat frequency response is or if it isn't a reference point in MI amplification, just asking.

Usually the reference (point) that the other similar phenomenon is judged or compared against isn't fixed in anything else in the measurable world, so why would it had to be in MI amps?

Of course, a flat frequency response is an easy reference, but so is a RIIA curve, and it ain't flat. Obviously.

Didn't the creator of an amp deliberately chose the whatever deviation from the flat frequency the tone stack may be, for a reason? In the likes of "Fender" tone stack (an accident more than a choice, but still..), or that of an Ampeg SVT, didn't our ears accept the "mid position" of the knobs to be the midpoint of the reference "flat" of that particular amp?

Regards
Sam

[elgecko]

"Neutral" might be a better term for zero/12 o'clock.

[makohund]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Why?

Because flatter is closer to the default sound of the instrument, along with the range of tone provided by its controls, than it is to the default voice of the amp and its range of controls.

It's better to know what that is and what it sounds like, and in turn the combine range of control, than it is not to.

Simply because knowing stuff is better and more useful than not knowing stuff. That's all.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by makohund

Because flatter is closer to the default sound of the instrument, along with the range of tone provided by its controls, than it is to the default voice of the amp and its range of controls.

It's better to know what that is and what it sounds like, and in turn the combine range of control, than it is not to.

Simply because knowing stuff is better and more useful than not knowing stuff. That's all.

Nicely put, but if what You said was true, we'd be all playing through truly flat PA console channel strips to transparent power amps to PA speakers.

Since only a tiny minority of us are doing that in personal amplification, I'd say there's a hole in Your logic.
We are however doing excactly that when giving the pre-everything DI signal to the FOH, regardless whether it's by choice or by some other means of persuation. Probably the reason why the stage sound is often crap, but the FOH is either good or at least bearable .

Regards
Sam