So you have 1700 Watts at your disposal...

Latinferno · #1 07-10-2010, 05:43 PM

An Eden 4X10 XLT (700 Watts@8 ohm) and XST (1000 Watts@8ohm). They will be daisy chained@4ohms for more power handling capacity. So here's the question..

Which amp/tube pre-amp/power amp combo would you use to maximize the power of these cabinets? I'm considering multiple options but want other peoples opinions (lightweight is always a bonus!).

Bass_Pounder · #2 07-10-2010, 06:13 PM

Carvin B2000 or BX1500

Note - the power rating of your cabs are only thermal ratings for burning out the voice coil. They have no true meaning of how many watts your cab can actually handle based upon how you EQ. The mechanical limits are far less than the thermal limits.

That being said, you also need to be aware that wattage gets split evenly between the two 8 ohm cabs. Therefore, you thermal limit is 2X your LOWEST rated cab (700 watts) = 1,400 watts.

bongomania · #3 07-10-2010, 06:34 PM

True-- also, daisy-chaining them does not provide more power-handling capacity. Running them in parallel for a 4-ohm load will (with more solid-state and hybrid amps) get you more wattage out of the amp than you'd get with just one 8 ohm cab, but that has no bearing on the power handling of any cab.

Any amp with up to 1400 W @ 4 ohms will "maximize the power" into those speakers. But be aware that the amp design, and how you set your EQ, and whether you use any compression, and whether the amp has a low-cut rumble filter, can all dramatically affect the amount of perceived loudness you get out of any amp or cab, regardless of wattage ratings. For example, a 300 W SVT head would be so insanely loud when cranked up through those cabs, that you would be on your knees begging to not have 1100 more watts pumped in.

projectMalamute · #4 07-10-2010, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

True-- also, daisy-chaining them does not provide more power-handling capacity.

Of course it does. Are you suggesting that two drivers cannot handle more power than one? Or that, say, sixteen drivers cannot handle more power than two?

bongomania · #5 07-10-2010, 07:19 PM

We're just reading his description differently, is all. I interpreted it that he was suggesting that daisy-chaining them would give each cab more power handling ability than its 8-ohm rating---which would be false.

JimmyM · #6 07-10-2010, 09:57 PM

if either of those eden cabs takes 700w, i'll eat my hat.

Latinferno · #7 07-11-2010, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

True-- also, daisy-chaining them does not provide more power-handling capacity

I'm aware that daisy chaining two cabinets doesn't allow for more handling capacity. I should have said "I will be running the cabs at 4ohm capacity and want an amp powerful enough to "maximize" the distribution of power between the two cabinets".

[/quote]For example, a 300 W SVT head would be so insanely loud when cranked up through those cabs, that you would be on your knees begging to not have 1100 more watts pumped in.

[/quote]

Ha! I'm currently running an Ampeg SVT 4 PRO and am pushing the head to the limit as it is (with my 8X10 Classic Ampeg cabinet) and BARELY have enough volume to keep up with two guitar players wielding 150 watt Mesa Boogie amps.

I need more head room and the Eden cabinets are top notch IMO. I'm aiming toward another set up that doesn't push 50lbs and wanted peoples opinions of different power amps (QSC, CROWN etc) Pre-Amps (Demeter, MPP-1/MPP-2) or solid state hybrid amps (Ampeg SVT 8 PRO) which YOU would prefer. Which combination would you use to maximize the handling capacity of these cabinets etc.

Latinferno · #8 07-11-2010, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

if either of those eden cabs takes 700w, i'll eat my hat.

I hope you're hungry

kevcooke · #9 07-11-2010, 06:29 AM

Which ever head/pre/power you go with, I personally like to have significantly more power than the cabs are rated at for headroom. My Accugroove Tri110s are only rated at 200w/250w, but I use a 800+800watt stereo power amp (can be bridged and the cabs daisy chained) and use common sense to know when to stop pushing it...

Latinferno · #10 07-11-2010, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

We're just reading his description differently, is all. I interpreted it that he was suggesting that daisy-chaining them would give each cab more power handling ability than its 8-ohm rating---which would be false.

True.

Most amps give you LESS watts@8ohm. And I was just letting people know that I was dropping down to 4ohms (allowing the amp to pump out more watts) which would give more head room for the cabinets handling capacity.

I wasn't suggesting that the cabinets would magically have a higher power rating by daisy chaining them. I guess I should have said they would be mono bridged as opposed to parallel or stereo@8ohm. Sorry for the confusion.

Latinferno · #11 07-11-2010, 06:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevcooke

Which ever head/pre/power you go with, I personally like to have significantly more power than the cabs are rated at for headroom. My Accugroove Tri110s are only rated at 200w/250w, but I use a 800+800watt stereo power amp (can be bridged and the cabs daisy chained) and use common sense to know when to stop pushing it...

This was the type of answer I was looking for.

What type of power amp are you using?...........

Duh! Sorry, Just read it: QSC PLX1602

kevcooke · #12 07-11-2010, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latinferno

This was the type of answer I was looking for.

What type of power amp are you using?

Glad to be of some help. I use a QSC PLX1602, which I picked up along with the Accugroove's, it's a couple of years old now but I'm sure they still do them... [EDIT: no they don't, but do a new, updated, series]

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/plx/plx.htm

I was considering picking up a Jonas Hellborg power-amp to go with my preamp, but I've heard about some serious reliability issues with them so I'm just going to stick with what I've got - as much clarity as you like!

As an alternative to the JH pre, I did consider an eden preamp which you might like to check out.

Latinferno · #13 07-11-2010, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevcooke

Glad to be of some help. I use a QSC PLX1602, which I picked up along with the Accugroove's, it's a couple of years old now but I'm sure they still do them... [EDIT: no they don't, but do a new, updated, series]

http://www.qscaudio.com/products/amps/plx/plx.htm

I was considering picking up a Jonas Hellborg power-amp to go with my preamp, but I've heard about some serious reliability issues with them so I'm just going to stick with what I've got - as much clarity as you like!

As an alternative to the JH pre, I did consider an eden preamp which you might like to check out.

I had a WT 800 Eden head before. The sound was too flat for me. So I opted to go with Ampeg and Ashdown ABM 500RC EVO (chrome rack mount amp which I'll be selling shortly).

The only amps I've been almost happy with are the Mesa Boogie and Ampeg amplifiers. While the Ashdown is a cool head, it just doesn't offer enough power for my situation.

Is there over heating issues with the QSC? Do they have fans to keep them cool? What are some QSC models you would suggest using?

What are some pre-amps you might suggest running? I currently have a Tech 21 RBI SansAmp RBI, but want more flexibility with a parametric EQ without having to add my RANE Parametric EQ in the rack (to save on weight etc).

KJung · #14 07-11-2010, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latinferno

I had a WT 800 Eden head before. The sound was too flat for me. So I opted to go with Ampeg and Ashdown ABM 500RC EVO (chrome rack mount amp which I'll be selling shortly).

The only amps I've been almost happy with are the Mesa Boogie and Ampeg amplifiers. While the Ashdown is a cool head, it just doesn't offer enough power for my situation.

Is there over heating issues with the QSC? Do they have fans to keep them cool? What are some QSC models you would suggest using?

What are some pre-amps you might suggest running? I currently have a Tech 21 RBI SansAmp RBI, but want more flexibility with a parametric EQ without having to add my RANE Parametric EQ in the rack (to save on weight etc).

Both the Mesa M9 and Carvin B2000 are amazing heads, massive power, only two rack spaces, great EQ. Something to think about before you get into 4 or 5 rack spaces.

Latinferno · #15 07-11-2010, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

Both the Mesa M9 and Carvin B2000 are amazing heads, massive power, only two rack spaces, great EQ. Something to think about before you get into 4 or 5 rack spaces.

I am curious about the M9. I pumps out 900 watts@8ohms so I'm curious to see if that's enough power (since I'm already pushing the SVT 4 Pro to the limit ha). I could snag one at Guitar Center since they have a 30 day money back deal (minus restocking fee I'm sure).

I am curious about the SVT 8 Pro (which is a ridiculous $2,4000 currently). But at that price, I figure I might as well go with a really nice pre-amp/power amp combo if I'm going to dish out that kind of $. So I decided to make this thread and see what other people consider "top notch" etc.

I'm going to have to eat a rack anyway since I'll be using the Sansamp as well (I play hard rock/metal) and this thing works great for that type of application. A four space rack is what I'll be looking at no matter what combo I decide to go with.

KJung · #16 07-11-2010, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latinferno

I am curious about the M9. I pumps out 900 watts@8ohms so I'm curious to see if that's enough power (since I'm already pushing the SVT 4 Pro to the limit ha). I could snag one at Guitar Center since they have a 30 day money back deal (minus restocking fee I'm sure).

I am curious about the SVT 8 Pro (which is a ridiculous $2,4000 currently). But at that price, I figure I might as well go with a really nice pre-amp/power amp combo if I'm going to dish out that kind of $. So I decided to make this thread and see what other people consider "top notch" etc.

900 watts at 4ohms, and it is a HUGE 900 watts.... MUCH more volume and low end than the SVT4 Pro, which IMO is grossly overrated powerwise.

RickenBoogie · #17 07-11-2010, 07:29 AM

+1 the Mesa M9 would give you all the power those Eden cabs could handle, and then some. Insanely powerful head, and compared to a pre/power set up, much lighter and easier to move.

Latinferno · #18 07-11-2010, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJung

900 watts at 4ohms, and it is a HUGE 900 watts.... MUCH more volume and low end than the SVT4 Pro, which IMO is grossly overrated powerwise.

I've heard a few people say that Ampeg likes to embellish their power ratings. Another friend of mine also suggested the M9 as a viable option. So I guess the only way to really find out is to take one on a test drive. The 15% restocking fee will be a bummer if it's not working for me, but I guess that's better than spending a ton of $ on separate power amp/pre amp components.

Latinferno · #19 07-11-2010, 07:48 AM

Apparently the only cons I could find with the Mesa Boogie M9 are the volume taper issues (goes from 1..2..11! in a hurry). And a noticeable hiss issue (which I hate) but have lived with given I use an SVT 4 Pro.

dcr · #20 07-11-2010, 08:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latinferno

This was the type of answer I was looking for.

What type of power amp are you using?...........

Duh! Sorry, Just read it: QSC PLX1602

Was just gonna add this one. I've got a 1602 on the way because my 1202 wasn't quite enough headroom with my Epi SII UL-610.

If you don't need the bridging capabilities of the "02" series, the QSC 1804 is a great amp. Plus it weighs about 8 pounds less than an "02" class amp.

dcr