Solid State Distortion sound and Jerrold Tiers(?)

rimisrandma · #1 08-24-2010, 06:37 PM

This was posted at other forums, but someone suggested I post here for the guy mentioned and others.

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I posted;

What type of distortion were manufacturers trying to emulate when designing things like;
Randall RG and Century series?
Ampeg VH140c?
Crate GX130c?
Madison Prophecy?

And also metal pedals like the Digitech TL-2 and the Boss Metal Zone?

For instance, is the Boss Metal Zone an attempt to get a hot rodded/heavily modded Marshall or screaming mesa mark series distortion tone?

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Another forumite suggested;

One of the inventors of the tube distortion simulating circuit in the Ampeg and Crate amps mentioned, Jerrold Tiers, is a regular poster over on the Talkbass.com forums. Considering that he's one of the names on the patent, he might be able to answer your question.

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KramerBassFan · #2 08-24-2010, 07:05 PM

IMHO, they were trying to design amps that sounded like tube amps/put out distortion, but didn't have all the "hassle" ( i use that loosely) of tubes.

will33 · #3 08-24-2010, 09:41 PM

IMO, they were going beyond just the "overdriven, cranked, hot tube head" sound and into the "metal, a bit scooped, lowmid heavy chunk with some really high stuff on top" sound and may have overdone it...slightly.

Just my opinion. I'd be interested to hear what someone who actually worked on it had to say. Not only in trying to get "that" sound but what obstacles were placed along the way as far as cost, ease of production, 90% of players liking 90% of the sound vs. doubling the cost to get that last 10%, etc.

Jerrold Tiers · #4 08-24-2010, 09:42 PM

Facts are facts..... SS is less expensive than tube.

So, the idea, and, for "us" (SLM) it worked out pretty well, was to get a good sounding, playable amp that didn't have to have tubes..... I think ours was one of the best. It certainly lasted longer, we were still making units under that patent when Loud took over.

The two units mentioned, the 140C and the 130C, are some of the very first units made under the patent. I do recall that the Crate product manager came over to try out the first proto, on his way to a meeting at SLM HQ. he had about 10 minutes to check it out, which he figured was enough to be able to say he had played it.....

About an hour and a half later, he said "oh s***!" and booked it out of the place..... It turned out not to really be about the "sound", but about the "playability".....

We started calling it "Spielvergnugen" because of the VW ads at the time, after the facility manager tried to tell everyone it was no big deal and just another marketing deal.... As a non- German speaker, he was unaware of what "Fahrvergnugen" was... and said what we had was just like that, thinking it was a made-up fake-German-sounding word with no meaning......

Anyway, yes, play more like tubes, "feel" more like tubes, and hopefully 'sound" more like tubes. That was the idea.

Thom Keiffer is the other name on the patent. Another long-time SLM designer with a long list of successful products. I believe he is indirectly working on stuff for the Chevy Volt now.

will33 · #5 08-24-2010, 09:45 PM

The 10 minutes just to tell the boss "I played it" is a little sad.

The hour and a half later saying "oh $%&*" is cool and should say something about it.

JimmyM · #6 08-24-2010, 11:32 PM

"Fahrvergnugen" means "fun with driving." used to date a german chick

will33 · #7 08-24-2010, 11:44 PM

That's weird, I lived in Wiesbaden for 3 years in the early 90's. It's really a made up word but could loosely translate to "driving pleasure" if you're drunk enough.

More a creation of VW's American marketing arm if anything. Or a German girl who's keen on an American ID.

We used to say that to German girls as if we knew something.....from the creepy looks, we learned pretty quick to stop saying that.

will33 · #8 08-24-2010, 11:56 PM

Just to keep things on subject here, let me punch in the keywords, " SS distortion " and " Jerrold Tiers ". Wouldn't want old memory's to get the best of us here. Plus I also think Ampeg's SS amps get a bad rap as far as tone is concerned sometimes. They all don't have it off the bat but most can be made to sound good at some level. That means they can be made to sound good at some level, maybe not the volume level you, I or most of us would like them to sound good at.

Notice to people, good tone and ample power have nothing to do with each other in this case.

Most start off as trying to be beefy/strong and need to be cleaned up while still retaining the beefy and strong, like take the blanket off of them. Of course, in fairness, once you say "Ampeg", everything will be immediately compared to the SVT in which case the best you can hope for is to break even but most likely you will fail.

KramerBassFan · #9 08-25-2010, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Just to keep things on subject here, let me punch in the keywords, " SS distortion " and " Jerrold Tiers ". Wouldn't want old memory's to get the best of us here. Plus I also think Ampeg's SS amps get a bad rap as far as tone is concerned sometimes. They all don't have it off the bat but most can be made to sound good at some level. That means they can be made to sound good at some level, maybe not the volume level you, I or most of us would like them to sound good at.

Notice to people, good tone and ample power have nothing to do with each other in this case.

Most start off as trying to be beefy/strong and need to be cleaned up while still retaining the beefy and strong, like take the blanket off of them. Of course, in fairness, once you say "Ampeg", everything will be immediately compared to the SVT in which case the best you can hope for is to break even but most likely you will fail.

Don't forget, Ampeg DID have a range of all tube guitar amplifiers, which were rather successful.

JimmyM · #10 08-25-2010, 08:54 AM

i can't believe ampeg discontinued their entire line of guitar amps recently. i wonder if pyotr belov did that so they wouldn't compete with his own blackheart brand.

KramerBassFan · #11 08-25-2010, 12:00 PM

They were actually very good amps.... i know plenty of guitar players (some of them on another forum i shall not name) who use and love their Ampegs.

That said... who would pass up an Ampeg Lee Jackson model?

Jerrold Tiers · #12 08-25-2010, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

The 10 minutes just to tell the boss "I played it" is a little sad.

The hour and a half later saying "oh $%&*" is cool and should say something about it.

Well, he was supposed to report on it, so I don't think it was a "that's enough time to waste" thing, but rather an "I've gotta get this quick checked so I can tell the boss whether it's probably done or needs more work".....

Agreed on the second point.

Buster Brown · #13 08-25-2010, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

That's weird, I lived in Wiesbaden for 3 years in the early 90's. It's really a made up word but could loosely translate to "driving pleasure" if you're drunk enough.

More a creation of VW's American marketing arm if anything. Or a German girl who's keen on an American ID.

We used to say that to German girls as if we knew something.....from the creepy looks, we learned pretty quick to stop saying that.

Ja Mein Herr!!

Sort of like me...in the late 70s saying "Kommen sie hier, mein Schotze".....girls just didn't dig it in Heidleberg....