Solid State "Grind"

[Jim C]

Have heard you guys refer to this term regarding some of the GK RB series heads; haven't played one in many years and gather it is an aggressive, perhaps even slighly distorted or effected type of desirable tonality.

Have only used SWR or MB as a SS head over the last 10 years with Ampegs being main amp up until recently.

After reading some good reports here, I brought an Acoustic 370 and 2x15 cabinet to rehearsal a couple of weeks ago. Amp had not been turned on in at least 10 years. It works perfectly and the tone is very "grindy". Plenty of attack, smooth bottom, and punchy middle. Really great stuff; I went to SWR many years ago in order to get enough power to use only a 1x15 for small gigs.

Is this 370 tome similar to what you guys describe as grindy for GK? Am back in love with this amp (which was my main amp many years ago). Really needs a 4 ohm (or lower) impedance to put out power, but it's got soul.

Is this grindy thing a form of distortion?

[jelwood]

Listen to Tool's "The Pot." That will give you an idea of the GK grind.

[Gasman]

Originally Posted by jelwood

Listen to Tool's "The Pot." That will give you an idea of the GK grind.

Mmmmmaybe. He uses 2001's, which are extremely powerful with a ton of headroom. When I think of GK "grind", it's more the 400rb/800rb sound.

[taurus1]

he also uses a Turbo Rat that's "always on", not to mention Sanamp GT-2, Colorsound Fuzz etc.
a better example might be Flea.

[Din Of Win]

Originally Posted by Gasman

Mmmmmaybe. He uses 2001's, which are extremely powerful with a ton of headroom. When I think of GK "grind", it's more the 400rb/800rb sound.

+1

I LOVE my 400rb for this reason. The grindyness is what's made me not want to 'upgrade' to an 800rb so far.

On a related note, even my 400rb can't touch the 'grind' of my 60's Kustom200.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jim C

Have heard you guys refer to this term regarding some of the GK RB series heads; haven't played one in many years and gather it is an aggressive, perhaps even slighly distorted or effected type of desirable tonality.

Have only used SWR or MB as a SS head over the last 10 years with Ampegs being main amp up until recently.

After reading some good reports here, I brought an Acoustic 370 and 2x15 cabinet to rehearsal a couple of weeks ago. Amp had not been turned on in at least 10 years. It works perfectly and the tone is very "grindy". Plenty of attack, smooth bottom, and punchy middle. Really great stuff; I went to SWR many years ago in order to get enough power to use only a 1x15 for small gigs.

Is this 370 tome similar to what you guys describe as grindy for GK? Am back in love with this amp (which was my main amp many years ago). Really needs a 4 ohm (or lower) impedance to put out power, but it's got soul.

Is this grindy thing a form of distortion?

Yes, somewhat similar to the old 400/800RB amps... very attenuated in the deep low end, and lots of upper midrange distortion (in a good way if that is your thing). Very, well, grindy!

The GK models like the 700 and Micro's won't do it. The old 400/800's... yes in a big way.

[Jim C]

Ken,
Is it fair to say grindy = distortion?
(not that this is a bad thing for many applications)

[ljazz]

Originally Posted by KJung

The GK models like the 700 and Micro's won't do it. The old 400/800's... yes in a big way.

All due respect KJung, but that is simply just not true (in the case of the 700).

The 700 grinds all day. Granted, not at as low a volume as the 400, but pretty close to the 800. I've spent the last month with a 800 in the rehearsal room, and have a/b'd the two a bunch over this time. In fact, I've been scratching my head wondering where the cats that say you can't get the 700 to sound like the 800 are coming from.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by ljazz

All due respect KJung, but that is simply just not true (in the case of the 700).

The 700 grinds all day. Granted, not at as low a volume as the 400, but pretty close to the 800. I've spent the last month with a 800 in the rehearsal room, and have a/b'd the two a bunch over this time. In fact, I've been scratching my head wondering where the cats that say you can't get the 700 to sound like the 800 are coming from.

It is a great head (700), and if you engage that low end roll-off switch (which is meant to mimic the low end roll-off of the old 400/800's) it gets 'close' (plenty of GK grind, but IMO and IME not the same to my ear). However, IMO and IME, even the new 400/800's don't do the all out snarl and grind and super tight low end of the originals. All sound nice though.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Jim C

Ken,
Is it fair to say grindy = distortion?
(not that this is a bad thing for many applications)

That's the way I hear it... that 'distortion' in the mids and upper mids, combined with a very attenuated low end, so that the brightness and, well, 'grind' doesn't get covered up by the deep low end.

We recently had an old 800RB at one of our GTG's, and it was just so impressive volume and punch wise compared to the Micro heads we had there (LMII, F1, Shuttle 6, etc.). However, relatively to those heads, there was VERY little true low end (I found the same with an Acoustic 370 head that was over at the house here recently). Punchy, snarly, grindy, with not much going on way down low. If you EQ'd the 370 to sound more like a modern head (i.e., reducing the mids almost all the way and boosting the low end), not surprisingly, the volume became much less impressive.

Cool voicing though, and they still sound darn good if that tone profile is what you are going for.

IMO, and a lot of IME

[sobie18]

My Peavey Bassist gets a nice grindy/overdriven sound with my Yamaha Attitude basses. Sounds pretty cool.

With solid state amps/pre's, you can find a way...

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by ljazz

All due respect KJung, but that is simply just not true (in the case of the 700).

The 700 grinds all day. Granted, not at as low a volume as the 400, but pretty close to the 800. I've spent the last month with a 800 in the rehearsal room, and have a/b'd the two a bunch over this time. In fact, I've been scratching my head wondering where the cats that say you can't get the 700 to sound like the 800 are coming from.

Yeah, I see it pretty much the same way - I can totally cop an 800rb sound with my 700rb-II, but at a bit higher volume - which ends up being right in my volume "sweet spot", in *my* typical band situations... But, the 700rb-II has a whole lot more of tonal variety available besides just copping the legendary 800rb sound...

JMHO, but there it is...


- georgestrings

[GaryLC]

Originally Posted by Din Of Win

On a related note, even my 400rb can't touch the 'grind' of my 60's Kustom200.

A big +1!!! There's nothing like those old Kustom 200's, some of my favorite tone came from those! The added bonus was the air-moving "poof" when you turned it on.

[Din Of Win]

Originally Posted by GaryLC

A big +1!!! There's nothing like those old Kustom 200's, some of my favorite tone came from those! The added bonus was the air-moving "poof" when you turned it on.

Hahaha, LOVE that part.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by KJung

However, IMO and IME, even the new 400/800's don't do the all out snarl and grind and super tight low end of the originals. All sound nice though.

Oh God; now you've done it; 300 new threads about vintage power transistors and which factories produced the best ones on which days!

Funny how fickle we (I) can be.
Have always looked for clear, clean, warm, full tone, whether it be an SVT idling along, LMII, or a SVP pre and big power amp. Breakout an old dinasour that does roll off the extreme lows, is underpowered when EQ'd heavily, and has a bit of buzz going on, and it's suddenly a great thing. Wonder if the novelty will wear off? Downside is no way that I can gig this amp with a single 1x15 due to low power output.

Thanks Ken; your observations make sense and it's cool that you recently had a pile of SS amps to compare.