Solid Stave VS Tube Amps

[bass_guitar]

Do all solid state amps have that "solid state" sound they are known for vs the sound from Tube amps? I've been playin/practicing on a Sidekick 70w Fender, then I go to band rehearsal with my Boogie 400w + and I am finding I am liking the solid state sound more and more.

Can I buy any old cheap solid state amp and get this sound? Or are there differences when it comes to this point?

[MuzikMan]

The power amp section of most solid state amps will be the same tonally (assuming you have enough clean headroom) but the preamp controls and your choice of cabs will have a big impact on tone.

[chaosMK]

Do you know how to use your 400+?

[bass_guitar]

I'll have to tear into the sidekick amp and see what speaker I replaced the original with.. been a long while. Which actually brings up the idea of possibly using one of my spare 15" EV speakers for testing. Hmm. Got an EV 15L

[bass_guitar]

Originally Posted by chaosMK

Do you know how to use your 400+?

I've also played a Sunn Beta Bass through the same cab and there is a difference in tone, is that what you are talking about?

[Alex1984]

I think that was sarcasm, implying maybe you haven't fully mastered the 400+ yet. It's a very complex amp and capable of many great tones. Mesa also has the Buster which is dubbed, "the most SS sounding tube amp", their hybrid line-up is excellent.

Of course, you're completely entitled to your own preference, but I wouldn't give up on the 400+ just yet.

[ishouldbeking]

I'm guessing a lot of what you're hearing is differences in gain staging and the inherent voicing of the two amps. What is it specifically that you like more about the sidekick, and what don't you like about the 400+? Some things can be easily fixed with EQ settings, other things might be inherent to the voice of a particular amp.

[bass_guitar]

I'm not a sound pro or amp pro. I do understand you get more mid range on a 10" than a 15" speaker. I'm trying to find out more info on the 10" Celestion BG 10 80 like frequency range. The 15" i use with the Boogie is an Eminence Kappa Pro is 46-4000Hz which I recently swapped out from a EV 15" BX - Long-throw due to a rubbing coil

I've not compared the two setups side by side. Is there a particular setting to get the Boogie close to a Solid State sound or am I just imagining all of this?

thanks for the help so far!

[will33]

I think you hearing real differences which you are falsely attributing to "tube or no tube". There are about 100 other variables in play.

[fivestringgecko]

Respectfully to Will, I think the differences you're talking about ARE from the inherent differences in tubes vs. solid state. Much like having a solid state amp and trying to match the tube sound, I think matching a solid state sound with a tube amp will be "it's close, but not quite" at best. After playing solid state amps for quite a while, my world got rocked when I picked up my first all-tube amp (1974 Ampeg V4B). Man, blew my mind!

However, Will does make a valid point that there are more variables. Putting a 70 watt solid state amp up to a 400 watt all tube head isn't quite fair. Amps have a "power band" (like a transmission in a car) of sorts... The amp will sound different the harder you push it. Pushing your solid state for volume will sound drastically different than playing the Mesa at low volumes. I've even noticed the same amp can sound quite different with the same EQ settings, just at different volumes.

If you're serious about wanting solid state sound, I might suggest off loading your Mesa and getting an actual solid state amp. I'm sure you'd be able to do it pretty quick.

$.02

5sg.

[BurningSkies]

There's no such thing as 'tube watts' and if there were, the Mesa 400+ would be about 280 of them.

I owned a 400+ for a couple years, and in many ways I didn't find it all that 'tubey' compared to other tube amps I've owned or used, which is funny given the sheer quantity of glass in the thing. The EQ on the unit also drove me nuts. It has a LOT of room to adjust, and I never could get it to sound like what I wanted to hear, no matter what I did.

[christw]

I like all my staves solid good sir!

I don't believe in a tube or SS sound. There are highly colored amps of both varieties. I'd have all of you believe my SC120 was SS if you couldn't see it.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by bass_guitar

I've also played a Sunn Beta Bass through the same cab and there is a difference in tone, is that what you are talking about?

The eq section of the 400+ is fairly different from most others. If I'm remembering correctly, the mid knob is cut only and the bass and treble are flat at 2 o'clock, not noon. That said, what is it about the tone that you don't like? It could also be that the 400+ isn't voiced to your liking. I like tube amps, but I don't like the boogie amps. Everyone has their preferences.

[nukes_da_bass]

Yes....the Mesa 400+ IS awful compared to the Sidekick...Ill trade you a sidekick for the Boogie 400+ yes I'll take it off your hands!!!

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

There's no such thing as 'tube watts' and if there were, the Mesa 400+ would be about 280 of them.

A much debated subject that I admit I don't know enough about to have a competent discussion on the matter. I DO know that my V4B is a good bit louder than solid state amps with comparable wattage. WHY that is though........ *shrug*

5sg.

[will33]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

Respectfully to Will, I think the differences you're talking about ARE from the inherent differences in tubes vs. solid state. Much like having a solid state amp and trying to match the tube sound, I think matching a solid state sound with a tube amp will be "it's close, but not quite" at best. After playing solid state amps for quite a while, my world got rocked when I picked up my first all-tube amp (1974 Ampeg V4B). Man, blew my mind!

However, Will does make a valid point that there are moree variables. Putting a 70 watt solid state amp up to a 400 watt all tube head isn't quite fair. Amps have a "power band" (like a transmission in a car) of sorts... The amp will sound different the harder you push it. Pushing your solid state for volume will sound drastically different than playing the Mesa at low volumes. I've even noticed the same amp can sound quite different with the same EQ settings, just at different volumes.

If you're serious about wanting solid state sound, I might suggest off loading your Mesa and getting an actual solid state amp. I'm sure you'd be able to do it pretty quick.

$.02

5sg.

FWIW, the 400+ is 280 watts on a good day.

[BurningSkies]

Easy. Harmonic distortion plus natural tube compression. Wattage is not a measure of volume. Wattage is a measure of power figured from volts and impedance.

That harmonic distortion that makes us perceive tube amps as louder is also why people think that tube amps sound richer and fuller.

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by will33

FWIW, the 400+ is 280 watts on a good day.

Good to know. Still, not quite fair to compare it to a 70 watt solid state, IMO.

5sg.

[will33]

FWIW, I had an early 80's fender sidekick, it's still in my parents basement, and I played on a 400+ about 4 times and fivestringgecko's right. It's a totally lopsided comparison. You're talking a learning to play, corner bar, but fairly beefy, fendery sounding amp for what it is, practicing at home, presumably by yourself, to a full on, pro level big tube amp that has a reputation for being a fairly clean tube amp, through a completely different and presumably bigger speaker system, at a band rehearsal mixed together with other instruments.

Yeah, tubes have something to do with it, I like tubes, but that's one of a great many things and likely the most insignificant part.

[DrSmaggs]

I don't know what it is, but I prefer the sound of a cranked 300 watt Ampeg all tube head over my SVT 4 PRO solid state power head. The PRO has preamp tubes.

I use my Sansamp RBI and I get a tone I love as much as the old tube amps.

Compromise