some Aguilar questions (DB750/751/AG500/ToneHammer)

[René_Julien]

GAS is getting the best of me again...
(And long post... sorry)

I am a satisfied Gallien Krueger user at the moment. 1001RB-II and Backline 600, both wonderful amps IMO.


But I have an itch for Aguilar.
A couple of months ago I played a DB750 or DB751 (honestly, I didn't pay attention which it was... they look similar, right?) in a music store.
I was testing out an effect pedal, I didn't specificly wanted to try the Aguilar amp. I don't even know what cab I was playing through. It was very big so I suspect the 4x12. (Hazy memory )
I've got a bit of a one-track mind and was occupied with some effect pedals I was trying out.
Only afterwards I started thinking about the amp I played through... that it sounded very good.

I play fretless in the heavier styles of music.
So there may be some agression in the sound (grit, growl), but top priority is that the fretless sound shines through as good as it can.

Anyone have experience with this?


What's holding me back for an immediate purchase of a DB750 or 751 is the price, around 2500€ around here, and the size and weight: 3u rack, 20kg.
I know these are probably drawbacks you should ignore if you want an amazing amp.


So... the other offerings from Aguilar, how do those stack up?
The AG500, it's solidstate, being a GK fan I don't mind SS.
But how is the AG500 compared to the flagship Aguilar model?
Totally different animal in it's own right, or an amp for someone who can't afford a DB751?
And how is the AG500 compared to SS Gallien Kruegers I already have and like? Is it redundant or can the AG500 deliver me something more that GK can't?


I also thought about the Tonehammer pedal as preamp. (I have two poweramps laying around anyway.)
Tonehammer + poweramp, versus DB751?
Is the Tonehammer any good for this? I searched the forum and a lot of people seem satisfied with the Tonehammer pedal.
But I did not find opinions on the Tonehammer as pre into poweramp versus the real deal.


My cabs:
I have a Hartke 410XL atm, which I'm going to phase out because of the weight. (Sound great IMO though)
I am waiting for a Barefaced DM (2x12) cab, when they are ready.
Alex Claber was very helpful with my questions on this cab. Seemed my cup of tea. Loud, not deep... not that bright... midrangy. Perfect for cutting through in metal... which I can only speculate of course.

OTOH, Alex at Barefaced also offers the Big One, a 15/6 style fullrange cab.
With my GAS for Aguilar, that got me poundering.
A great head like the DB751 through a 15/6 cab. That has got to be an awesome rig I suppose.
Wouldn't that be a dream to play a fretless bass through, sound as beautiful as fretless can be and still be heard in a metal mix?

Yeah, that's a lot of questions and a lot on my mind.

Anyone have helpful information for me and opinions on my proposed Aguilar rig?

Thank you.

[KJung]

The Aguilar voicing is almost the exact opposite of the GK voicing. Where GK is tight, grindy, bright and punchy, the Aguilar voicing is deep, big, a bit bloomy in the lows, polite mids and relaxed top end.

The 750/751 is just a ball buster to schlepp around. Remember, you need a three space rack also... just massively big and heavy. It will not grind at all... big, fat, smooth, creamy... pretty much the opposite tone that you have now. Given that a great fretless sound (IMO) is all about the mids combined with a tight, controlled low end, the 750/751 would be the last amp I would want if I was a fretless player (IMO, of course.). Using the very big, very 'polite' sounding 15/6 cab would make the 750/751 even more big, polite and deep.

While the dual channel AG500 has 'overdrive' capability, the 'clean' tone of the AG500 is again almost a mirror image (opposite) of the GK voicing, but not nearly as powerful, fat, or loud as the 750/751.

I wouldn't do it, given your tone goals.

[jimmy rocket]

Hmm, I have two amps, one of them being an Aguilar AG500SC and the other being a GK MB2 500. They are different creatures to be sure.

For a SS amp, I find the AG500sc to be warm and gritty. I run it with a custom overdrive pedal (that I built in the spirit of the old DOD 250 but with a modified clipping stage) in front of it to dirty it up a bit, but it's plenty warm to begin with.

My GK, on the other hand, has the capacity to be a little crisper, and while the jury's still out on what all of us individually call "grind" - yeah, it's capable of being grindy sounding.

The AG500sc is not a 750/751, but it is closer to that side of the spectrum than the GK heads you mentioned, and I thought it did just fine for me with a fretless (although I'll say I'm not a regular fretless player so perhaps my aural palette is not as finely developed as KJung here).

[René_Julien]

Dammit Ken. I can't post a single thread in the amp forum without you being one of the first to respond with a good helpful answer to my question.



Thanks.


I hear you. I only played an Aguilar in a store... with a fretted bass since I didn't brought my own and the store didn't had any fretless.
As far as you can test out an amp in a store (which you almost never truly can IMO) it was a nice sounding amp.

As you described it, big polite, and deep, fat, smooth, creamy.
So not ideal for fretless in your opinion.

I was intrigued if the DB750/751 had some more potential.
I thought I remember someone saying on this forum once that this (these) amps are great for slap playing.
Not that I slap, but I do some tapping. I figure what is good for slap is good for tap.


Thanks for the advice.
I should probably stick with my original plan.
That Barefaced DM 2x12 cab and one of my Gallien Krueger heads.
(I really want to go with the BL600. Alex Claber suggested it might be to weak a head and my 1001RB-II would be great. I can teste them both out and see what works best. Luxury problem.)

So... I should stop obsessing about Aguilar then?

Unless someone protests KJung's opinion.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by jimmy rocket

Hmm, I have two amps, one of them being an Aguilar AG500SC and the other being a GK MB2 500. They are different creatures to be sure.

For a SS amp, I find the AG500sc to be warm and gritty. I run it with a custom overdrive pedal (that I built in the spirit of the old DOD 250 but with a modified clipping stage) in front of it to dirty it up a bit, but it's plenty warm to begin with.

My GK, on the other hand, has the capacity to be a little crisper, and while the jury's still out on what all of us individually call "grind" - yeah, it's capable of being grindy sounding.

The AG500sc is not a 750/751, but it is closer to that side of the spectrum than the GK heads you mentioned, and I thought it did just fine for me with a fretless (although I'll say I'm not a regular fretless player so perhaps my aural palette is not as finely developed as KJung here).

Thank you Jimmy.
I hear you loud and clear.

I shouldn't stray away from GK.


Man, Aguilar gets talked out of my head quickly here.


(Great amps I assume, maybe not the right thing for me.)

[Son of Bovril]

I wouldn't count on a great slap tone making for a great tap tone, but thats just IMO

and I wouldn't buy an amp around it either... unless thats the majority of your playing

[KJung]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

Dammit Ken. I can't post a single thread in the amp forum without you being one of the first to respond with a good helpful answer to my question.



Thanks.


I hear you. I only played an Aguilar in a store... with a fretted bass since I didn't brought my own and the store didn't had any fretless.
As far as you can test out an amp in a store (which you almost never truly can IMO) it was a nice sounding amp.

As you described it, big polite, and deep, fat, smooth, creamy.
So not ideal for fretless in your opinion.

I was intrigued if the DB750/751 had some more potential.
I thought I remember someone saying on this forum once that this (these) amps are great for slap playing.
Not that I slap, but I do some tapping. I figure what is good for slap is good for tap.


Thanks for the advice.
I should probably stick with my original plan.
That Barefaced DM 2x12 cab and one of my Gallien Krueger heads.
(I really want to go with the BL600. Alex Claber suggested it might be to weak a head and my 1001RB-II would be great. I can teste them both out and see what works best. Luxury problem.)

So... I should stop obsessing about Aguilar then?

Unless someone protests KJung's opinion.

Just to be clear... big, creamy, fat, polite could be someone's dream tone (fretless or otherwise).... just saying it is VERY different from the GK tone that you seem to dig.

Aguilar makes some wonderful stuff, but just like most other piece of gear, they put their own voicing in there, which some love, and some (like me) don't dig so much.

[T. Alan Smith]

I'd love an Aguilar head someday too. Just remember to pair it with a cab with a tighter bottom and more mid-voiced to compensate for the voicing of the head. I've played A couple Aggie heads thru a couple different Bergantino cabs, for example, with excellent results on fretless.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by T. Alan Smith

I'd love an Aguilar head someday too. Just remember to pair it with a cab with a tighter bottom and more mid-voiced to compensate for the voicing of the head. I've played A couple Aggie heads thru a couple different Bergantino cabs, for example, with excellent results on fretless.

+1 The AG500 through a Berg HS210 (or two) is a beautiful thing if you want it fat, warm, but not too bloomy!

[jimmy rocket]

Originally Posted by KJung

Just to be clear... big, creamy, fat, polite could be someone's dream tone (fretless or otherwise).... just saying it is VERY different from the GK tone that you seem to dig.

Indeed! It's why my Aggie is my main amp right now.

Aguilar makes some wonderful stuff, but just like most other piece of gear, they put their own voicing in there, which some love, and some (like me) don't dig so much.

I moved from Ampeg to MarkBass, and finally to Aguilar, and I just knew as soon as I started playing that I had found my home. For me the Ampeg was too mushy and the MarkBass was too sterile, but the Aguilar seemed to be the right mix of warmth, punch and articulation. I would never try to talk someone out of Aguilar amps or cabs, but it sounds like it might not be your cup of tone tea.

[Hizzoner]

as an affordable alternative you may want to start with a tonehammer in front of your gk or poweramp as a way to add a nice layer of tone or "hair" to your personal taste. I have used my TH in front of my TFunk to add some flavor and I like it a lot..I play passive basses and feel the TH just adds a bit more to the sonic pallette..(if that makes sense)..having said that I do not use the TH much in front of my Walkabout...I just play with the gain on the WA to get more tube overdrive if I need "Hair"...

The downside is the volume swell when the AGS circuit(sweet distortion) is engaged...but I tend to not use that option anyway as I have a separate fuzz pedal in the chain if needed.

If you want some agression in your sound have you checked out Mesa gear? Something like the Carbine?(The carbine might go really well with fretless for heavy music..just speculating of course)

[T. Alan Smith]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 The AG500 through a Berg HS210 (or two) is a beautiful thing if you want it fat, warm, but not too bloomy!

Ken,

just wondering if you had a chance to play the 500 thru the AE410(?). That's one of the setups I got a chance to try. ...wondering if you could share the difference between the HS & the AE with the 500.

Thanks.

[Mulebagger]

I've had both the Aguilar AG500 and DB750, but I sold the AG500. I spend about equal time on fretted and fretless bass.

I know the DB750 is a bit expensive and perhaps a bit heavy too, but it is a monster. Although it can be warm thick, it can also be very aggressive. I think it is especially well suited to fretless bass. I'm currently using a Status Empathy 6 fretless and a Modulus Genesis 5 fretless with my DB750 and the combination is amazing!

I didn't like the voicing on my AG500 nearly as much as the DB750 so we parted ways. It did have a nice saturation channel and good power. I prefer my Markbass for a small combo now over the AG500 because it offers a quick range of useful tones and is easier to get around in the combo format.


Honestly, I haven't played an amp that I like more for fretless than my DB750.
Obviously there are many considerations for you to weigh when considering your next amp. If I were you, I'd bring in my fretless and play the Aggie to see how it sounded for myself and let my ears decide for me. Something got you considering Aguilar from your recent experience that you should investigate more before giving it up. There are also many reasons for Aguilar's success and popularity. You may have just discovered a few for your self

Best of luck with your amp search.
Derrick

[KJung]

Originally Posted by T. Alan Smith

Ken,

just wondering if you had a chance to play the 500 thru the AE410(?). That's one of the setups I got a chance to try. ...wondering if you could share the difference between the HS & the AE with the 500.

Thanks.

I have not had the pleasure of that one. The AE's are not quite as tight and warm as the HS cabs, and are MUCH more aggressive in the upper mids. I'm not sure how well that would play with the AG500. The HS line is just beautiful with that head though, and quite frankly, the HS210 is the only pairing that I liked with the AG500, which in general is not my thing.

[Mulebagger]

For the tone record, I used my 2 different Aggies through a BagEnd D10BX-D, or a Mesa 6x10, or a pair of Acoustic B410 cabs.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 The AG500 through a Berg HS210 (or two) is a beautiful thing if you want it fat, warm, but not too bloomy!

Well, I'm not really looking for fat and warm.

My poundering is that I may missing out on something for fretless. That maybe Aguilar could offer me more.
Right now I have a gritty "colder" tone from GK, which I like in general for the music I play.
Perhaps I should look into a toneshaping pedal to enhance my fretless playing sometimes instead of an amp.
Actually I already have pedal that is a nice booster for fretless, the BOSS FDR-1 Fender Deluxe Reverb amp simulator pedal.


I have no experience with fullrange cabs. I thought it might have been better for fretless maybe.

Of course, head and cab are two seperate issues.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by Hizzoner

as an affordable alternative you may want to start with a tonehammer in front of your gk or poweramp as a way to add a nice layer of tone or "hair" to your personal taste. I have used my TH in front of my TFunk to add some flavor and I like it a lot..I play passive basses and feel the TH just adds a bit more to the sonic pallette..(if that makes sense)..having said that I do not use the TH much in front of my Walkabout...I just play with the gain on the WA to get more tube overdrive if I need "Hair"...

The downside is the volume swell when the AGS circuit(sweet distortion) is engaged...but I tend to not use that option anyway as I have a separate fuzz pedal in the chain if needed.

If you want some agression in your sound have you checked out Mesa gear? Something like the Carbine?(The carbine might go really well with fretless for heavy music..just speculating of course)

Thanks for the advice.
Yeah, maybe a Tonehammer I could get. I got a big pedal collection anyway already.


Yes, I played the Carbine.
Awesome amp indeed. Great tone and wouldn't mind owning one.
But I prefer Gallien Krueger.

Originally Posted by Mulebagger

I've had both the Aguilar AG500 and DB750, but I sold the AG500. I spend about equal time on fretted and fretless bass.

I know the DB750 is a bit expensive and perhaps a bit heavy too, but it is a monster. Although it can be warm thick, it can also be very aggressive. I think it is especially well suited to fretless bass. I'm currently using a Status Empathy 6 fretless and a Modulus Genesis 5 fretless with my DB750 and the combination is amazing!

I didn't like the voicing on my AG500 nearly as much as the DB750 so we parted ways. It did have a nice saturation channel and good power. I prefer my Markbass for a small combo now over the AG500 because it offers a quick range of useful tones and is easier to get around in the combo format.


Honestly, I haven't played an amp that I like more for fretless than my DB750.
Obviously there are many considerations for you to weigh when considering your next amp. If I were you, I'd bring in my fretless and play the Aggie to see how it sounded for myself and let my ears decide for me. Something got you considering Aguilar from your recent experience that you should investigate more before giving it up. There are also many reasons for Aguilar's success and popularity. You may have just discovered a few for your self

Best of luck with your amp search.
Derrick

Okay.
Well, I don't desperately and urgently need another amp.
Just GAS

Of course, Aggie will be in the back of my head. And whenever I have the chance I'll try out an Aguilar again.
(Music stores here in Belgium are usually slim pinkings. )

The one I played was with a fretted precision bass.
Sounded awesome. As awesome as my GK is... only very different.
So I wondered what people's experiences are with fretless through a DB750/751.

If the Aguilar wasn't so expensive, I'd risk it.
It's not that I ever going to sell my GK. But two rigs, then I can test out and build up proper experience myself with these two different amps.

Thanks for the advice.

[T. Alan Smith]

Originally Posted by René_Julien

So I wondered what people's experiences are with fretless through a DB750/751.

With my Stingray fretless 4HP and my Berg HT112, the DB750 was dreamy.

[Andy Will]

I've got both the AG500 and DB751 with a DB410 Cabinet (sold my second one a couple of days ago) and both amps has a fantastic low end with great clarity with out ever being muddy or brittle.

You'll be happy with either amp I'm sure though for most people the DB750/751 always has that slight edge for people due to the huge power it contains! If you are concerned about fretless though it, check how great Gary Willis sounds using his Aguilar stack!

Particularly with the newer DB751, the mid control has a lot of 'push' on tap that can really cut through (I used it with a Metal band and had to turn down!) without the awful 'finger squeak inducing' high mids that I couldn't dial out of the M6 Carbine I owned previously (Sorry to the Carbine lovers out there).

Since I'm not playing much live right now I'm loving the AG500 (sweeeeeet overdrive!) so, will possibly be selling my other DB410 with the DB751 and picking up a GS412 to go with the AG500 later on when required.

If you're in the Amsterdam area soon, feel free to give me a shout and check both out while they are at my place.

[René_Julien]

Originally Posted by Andy Will

I've got both the AG500 and DB751 with a DB410 Cabinet (sold my second one a couple of days ago) and both amps has a fantastic low end with great clarity with out ever being muddy or brittle.

You'll be happy with either amp I'm sure though for most people the DB750/751 always has that slight edge for people due to the huge power it contains! If you are concerned about fretless though it, check how great Gary Willis sounds using his Aguilar stack!

Particularly with the newer DB751, the mid control has a lot of 'push' on tap that can really cut through (I used it with a Metal band and had to turn down!) without the awful 'finger squeak inducing' high mids that I couldn't dial out of the M6 Carbine I owned previously (Sorry to the Carbine lovers out there).

Since I'm not playing much live right now I'm loving the AG500 (sweeeeeet overdrive!) so, will possibly be selling my other DB410 with the DB751 and picking up a GS412 to go with the AG500 later on when required.

If you're in the Amsterdam area soon, feel free to give me a shout and check both out while they are at my place.

Thank you for the offer.


I need to have a chance to play one again. But it's hard to find out if the DB751 is going to sound great with my fretless in my band situation, compared to flirting with an amp in a music store.

As a matter of fact, I think I know a bassist (don't know him that good) local to me who last year got an Aguilar rig.
I'll see if I can track this guy and let me test out his amp.


For practical reasons, my Gallien Krueger is awesome. And sounds great in my band against my guitarist's Marshall.

But I suffer from serious amp GAS.

For the price of a DB751... if I stretch my budget I could get a Hiwatt (or Reeves) amp. Something I've been longing for for a long time.
Again, a totally different animal, and I don't have experience with all-tube amps. (And can't really try one out.)


Thank you for all the advice everyone.
The opinions shared mean a lot to me. And makes me believe that Aguilar would not be my cup of tea.
... or not.