Some amps don't handle octavers?

[dlenaghan]

Hi all, I know I might be a traitor to the purists among us, but I've recently gotten an octaver, the MXR m288, to help my bass work as a low frequency synth in experimental/electronic music. I'm having real issues getting it to track on the E string especially below the 7th fret. Dunlop's service guys suggest the pedal might be producing a signal too low for the amp to reproduce. I haven't had the chance to try the pedal with a larger amp, but when I play, the note jumps between the fundamental and the octave like the amp (or pedal, maybe it's just busted) can't decide what to play. It definitely is nothing like Ed Friedland's demo on YouTube. Any thoughts? I'll post this in the effects forum as well since I haven't determmined the problem yet.

[Mr. Foxen]

Tracking is better if you have a bassier output from the bass, since it needs to pick up on the lowest harmonic, and they aren't very present in comparison to the higher ones, so neck pickup and tone rolled back. Plus a sub octave that low isn't going to be reproduced by a standard bass rig, they can barely cope with the fundamental of a standard tuned low E.

[Smurf-o-Deth]

That is not amp related at all. Analogue octave dividers are finicky and require precise technique to get them to track well, and even in the best situation, they will only track so low. Overtones confuse the circuit, so anything you can do to increase fundamental presence will aid in tracking (rolling off the tone knob, playing near the neck, et cetera). Also, analogue octave dividers are monophonic, so it is of paramount importance to not have more than one note ringing at a time.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by Smurf-o-Deth

That is not amp related at all. Analogue octave dividers are finicky and require precise technique to get them to track well, and even in the best situation, they will only track so low. Overtones confuse the circuit, so anything you can do to increase fundamental presence will aid in tracking (rolling off the tone knob, playing near the neck, et cetera). Also, analogue octave dividers are monophonic, so it is of paramount importance to not have more than one note ringing at a time.

+1. that's about it.

[BEKyle]

I find running some compression before the octave pedal can help a bit, but like everyone else said tracking that low, with sustain can be problematic with most amps.

[RickenBoogie]

+1 to the above +1

[dlenaghan]

But I'm not sure.. in Ed Friedland's demo (and I'm only talking about the very end, single sustained notes, I can't compare my technique and his, that's ridiculous) he only gets the MXR glitching at an F#, so he's playing the fundamental at the 2nd fret of his E string, assuming his 5-string is tuned BEADG.. the one I was playing (and yes, this is with bass up, overtones reduced as much as possible) was glitching on notes as high as the 7th fret, so the lowest B my standard-tuned 4 string could offer, a full 5 frets higher than Ed is playing in his video. I had pretty much assumed, when I bought the pedal, that I would only lost track of my low E, F, and F# because in the demo the MXR holds onto notes higher than that quite well. So I'm not sure what to do and I'm more or less scared off octavers which is a shame since EBS looks like theirs is pretty mean, and I've been watching some pretty cool demos of the EHX Hogs and Pogs. (Which might not be analog and subject to these issues?)
Anyway, thanks for weighing in, the pedal's on its way back to the seller and I'm more or less out 20 bucks for the shipping but so is he since we decided the decent thing to do was split it since it was a new pedal and there wasn't anything he could've done to test it out without marking it as used.. (This is overseas shipping we're talking here, all you spoiled Stateside guys and your free shipping on eBay... grrr..)

[carlos840]

The micro POG tracks any note on my bass, maybe the MXR is just not right for what you want it to do!

[BassmanPaul]

I find that for my boss unit, playing and octave above what you need with give you better tracking. Just remember when using the second octave down you are producing frequencies that your speaker cabinets were never designed to reproduce and in many cases simply cannot reproduce with out damage.

Edit: If you are looking to get synth tones try and find an Akai Deep Impact pedal. There're discontinued but pop up on Ebay now and again.

[BassMonstrum]

Originally Posted by BassmanPaul

I find that for my boss unit, playing and octave above what you need with give you better tracking. Just remember when using the second octave down you are producing frequencies that your speaker cabinets were never designed to reproduce and in many cases simply cannot reproduce with out damage.

Edit: If you are looking to get synth tones try and find an Akai Deep Impact pedal. There're discontinued but pop up on Ebay now and again.

+1 on the "producing frequencies that your speaker cabinets were never designed to reproduce..."

It's not a question of how low can you go... it's how low do you NEED to go?

[PunkSweeper]

I highly doubt that under any circumstances you will ever get an octave below the fundamental of E. That's around 20hz. You can't really hear that low anyway. If a pedal tracks a low E, it's probably tracking the second harmonic (around 82hz) and producing a 42hz signal.

[Robby Hoinsky]

Originally Posted by PunkSweeper

I highly doubt that under any circumstances you will ever get an octave below the fundamental of E. That's around 20hz. You can't really hear that low anyway. If a pedal tracks a low E, it's probably tracking the second harmonic (around 82hz) and producing a 42hz signal.

Agreed. Out of curiosity, why opt to use an octaver instead of tuning lower and some effects? Any frequency needed that can actually be heard can be attained through lower tuning. Many, dare I say most, quality amps won't even produce low E with authority, much of the bass you hear is the overtones.

Robby.

[fivestringgecko]

+1, I don't think it's the amp.

Something no one has mentioned yet... Where do you have the Bass Octave Deluxe in your chain? Octavers (and envelopes) are usually better off placed at the beginning of an effects chain so that they can get the cleanest signal possible from your bass. Have you tried the pedal just by itself (bass > BOD > amp)? If you have pedals in front of it, maybe there's something that isn't playing nice, changing the signal somehow that you can't hear.

Just a thought. Mine is right after my tuner at the front of my chain and I can get consistent tracking on my M-288 down to low F# on the E-string... not that you really need to play that low with an octaver, I usually stick to the "sweet spot" farther up the neck.

5sg.

[Smurf-o-Deth]

Originally Posted by Robby Hoinsky

Agreed. Out of curiosity, why opt to use an octaver instead of tuning lower and some effects? Any frequency needed that can actually be heard can be attained through lower tuning. Many, dare I say most, quality amps won't even produce low E with authority, much of the bass you hear is the overtones.

Robby.

My top reasons? To get a synthy sound (useful for a variety of applications) and to be able to get very low notes while playing higher up the neck (both for an ease-of-play benefit and for an octave-doubling effect). Plus, with a low pass filter after the octave down, then into a little dirt, you can get a natural sounding, ultra-heavy tone that sounds great in a lot of contexts. There are plenty of other reasons, but those are my main reasons, and down-tuning simply doesn't achieve the same thing.

[dlenaghan]

Originally Posted by Smurf-o-Deth

My top reasons? To get a synthy sound (useful for a variety of applications) and to be able to get very low notes while playing higher up the neck (both for an ease-of-play benefit and for an octave-doubling effect). Plus, with a low pass filter after the octave down, then into a little dirt, you can get a natural sounding, ultra-heavy tone that sounds great in a lot of contexts. There are plenty of other reasons, but those are my main reasons, and down-tuning simply doesn't achieve the same thing.

This. I ditched the octaver and went another route, musically. It's hard and damn expensive to dial up a nice synthy grit.

[coreyfyfe]

Originally Posted by dlenaghan

So I'm not sure what to do and I'm more or less scared off octavers which is a shame since EBS looks like theirs is pretty mean, and I've been watching some pretty cool demos of the EHX Hogs and Pogs. (Which might not be analog and subject to these issues?)

I'd say dig around in the effects forum for a while, you'll find a ton of good suggestions. The HOG/POGs are digital so they won't have as much glitchiness but they will sound different from an analog octaver. I have both analog and digital on my board right now, they each serve a purpose, and each have their limitations.

[dlenaghan]

I got the Hog, but mostly for the Yeasayer sound that's on their Ambling Alp performance for Jimmy Fallon's show, higher octave stuff. Still considering the EBS octaver for its tone.