Somewhere between Aggie/Berg and Markbass

[Couvy]

Hey Folks!

I wanted to throw some ideas out here and see what the experts have to say.

I've gone through some rigs over the years, with mixed results. The first rig that I was really happy with was an Ashdown MAG400 through an Acme B2, I used that for a long time. After that I tried some stuff that I didn't like as much (little Ashdown ABM combo, Aguilar GS112) and later switched to an Acme B4 with a DB680 and a Mackie 1400i. I had an iAmp 800 combo at work that I really liked a lot, I hate that those are discontinued! I've used a Genz Benz shuttle at work (the little 12" cube one) and it's alright, just a little weird as far as gain structure. I've also been using an Epifani UL502/UL310, and that's a really good tone. I used my DB680 through an IP112/EX112 for many years and I absolutely loved it. I decided about 6 months ago that I didn't like carrying 3 pieces to my gigs, though (the rack was the real deal breaker) and I switched to a Markbass CMD 121H/Traveler 121H. I like the form factor, to be sure, I just don't really know that I love the eq section on this amp. I find myself spending a lot more time trying to set it up for different basses/rooms than I did with the db680. Anyhow, I thought I was happy until I found a deal that was too good to pass up on a db750 and ae410. 2 seconds playing through that rig, without even touching the eq, and I remembered just how different that Markbass rig is from my ideal.

Now, the real question. I know that this db750/ae410 is too big for me. The cmd121h/traveler 121h is pretty much the perfect size. Is there a better way to get the big sound out of something small/light? I think that I really would like to have some parametric eq again, if that's possible. I'll defer to the experts!

Thanks, everyone, I'm looking forward to your suggestions.

[KJung]

It would be pretty difficult to match the output of the AE410 in a cabinet of the same size and weight, so if you like that, stick with it.

On the other hand, while the DB750/51 does what it does very well, that is just a boat anchor. I would highly recommend checking out some lightweight heads to match with your AE410.

The TC RH750 is warm and smooth, and while it doesn't have the deep low end capability of the DB750, it sounds VERY good with the AE410 and has a great compressor, four bands of semi-parametric mids, a great on-board tuner, and it is under 10 pounds. Lots of talk about the 'unusual' way they rate and use power, but the thing is a hammer volume-wise.

The Streamliner900 is in the same tone universe as the DB750 (fat, smooth, warm, clean but very tubey) and is 8 pounds and is a remarkable fit with the AE410, and it also hammers the volume and low end.

M favorite head with the AE410 is the Markbass F500, which has semi-parametric mids and is very small, light and powerful (although it has a much tighter, brighter tone than the DB750.... might not be your deal). The Genz Shuttle Max 9.2 is also magnificent, and has EQ to die for, and is very versatile.

Lot's of good, small, lightweight options that make the AE410 a nice, schlep-able single cab solution with castors.

[gillento]

What about the Aguilar ToneHammer 500 (although I myself prefer the GB Streamliner as well)?
It is rather db750-like sounding and just a few lbs.

[Couvy]

Yeah, I thought of that one. Also, very interested in trying out a Streamliner 900. I don't think that I can justify a big 410 cabinet, though. Any other options, or should I stick with the Traveler 121?

[gillento]

It's rather difficult recommending cabs not knowing your volume/loudness requirements.
My cabs of choice are either two Aguilar SL112 or a single 4 ohm db212 with either a GB Streamliner 600, a Momark TSA 500 or an Ashdown ABM500.
As you mentionned the GS112 speakers: when they are modded with DeltaLite2512II speakers, they sound similar to the SL112 cabs.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Couvy

Yeah, I thought of that one. Also, very interested in trying out a Streamliner 900. I don't think that I can justify a big 410 cabinet, though. Any other options, or should I stick with the Traveler 121?

Not much between a 410 and a 112. Most 212's are about the same size and weight as the AE410.

If you really aren't needing the volume of a 410 or 212, then the game changes. The new Bergantino HD210 looks very promising, and the various 'super twelves' I've been going on about on this site (particularly the Thunderchild 112 and the Baer ML112) will give you 210+ performance volume-wise, with more true low end.

There is a TBer who is very happy with the Thunderchild112 and the Aguilar TH500. That might be a nice combination for you if you never need more than 210-like volume.

Again, basing all this on your original post that you don't want to ever carry two cabs.

Edit: Also, the Thunderchild or ML112 would BURY the Markbass 121 (which is a decent 112).

[Couvy]

Ok, sorry about that confusion! I prefer 2 cabs, for the modular type rig.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Couvy

Ok, sorry about that confusion! I prefer 2 cabs, for the modular type rig.

I don't know where I got it in my head that you wanted a single cab solution.

Well, if you are willing to carry a 2 x 112 rig, there are massive options for you. Since you dig the AE410 and DB750, my recommendation would be a Streamliner900 and 2 x Baer ML112's. You will get the same volume as your big rig, more real low end, and a similar upper midrange clarity and brightness with no 'tweeter tone' at all, but much more upper mid and lower treble presence than any one way cab I've ever heard. I have a few clips of the ML112 on my youtube channel with various amps and basses that might serve as a data point for you if you have a high quality playback system.

If you want a lot of EQ, but still a warm, organic tone, the Thunderfunk 800b or 750a would be a great option... smooth, warm, not as fat as the DB750 but much more articulate and punchy, and sounds great with a variety of cabs, including the Aguilar DB112's, etc.

It would sound great with the DB750 also, but I wouldn't wish lugging that thing around on anyone.

[babebambi]

You like Aguilar, and you like ACME.

I have a feeling that you will like how the Aguilar tone hammer paired with an ACME full range 12 and a flat wound 12.

[Jimmy Stump]

Originally Posted by Couvy

Ok, sorry about that confusion! I prefer 2 cabs, for the modular type rig.

If you like the AE410 but want a modular rig, do what I do. I use 2 AE210's for just that reason.

[Mulebagger]

I used my DB750 with a BagEnd D10BX-D and found it was an amazing and compact rig. The DB750 is obviously heavy, but nothing compared to an SVT. The Bagend is around 70 lbs, but I played some rather large rooms with that little 2x10 and had a killer sound to boot. SO smooth. Wicked with a fretless too!!

[michricker]

I have tried all the combos mentioned. I ended up finally (and most happy) with a DB750 with NOS tubes and a Berg HS410. With casters its a one trip into the gig. If you are using casters anyway, the HS at 20 lbs more than the AE is not big deal IMO. I think the HS410 sounds and dynamically feels better that the neo AE. Just my opinion after trying a bunch of neo cabs in the last few years. Can be very similiar to the NV610 but also has a tweeter and is ported for more tonally variety. Plenty loud for even big outside gigs on big stages. Plus the DB750 looks so cool and a model of good industrial design. Definately a head that will out last all these wimpy mini heads for durability! Just IMO/IME and I gig alot! I do have a Markbass LMIII I use for practice, still a nice sounding head with the HS410.

[Couvy]

That Streamliner 900 and 2x Baer ML112 idea sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. How is it for upright? Also, I was reading the specs and I'm a little worried about the low end rolling off at 55hz. I'm still interested, just wanted to make sure that it's healthy on the low end girth side.

[Couvy]

The LDS nearful option might be cool, too. How does that compare?

[kasbrey]

My DHA VT1 BASS EQ/DI has transformed my Markbass Minimark/Club121 or LM11/ 2xClub121 rigs. If I'd have bought this earlier I'd have saved myself a fortune in cabs and basses.
A really nice fat valve tone with definition - warmth and clean bite. I like the 121h cabs, one of these would bring the best out of them.

[Couvy]

Yeah, I just don't like using outboard preamps before my amp. I always try and send straight di tone to foh, and I also don't want to have one more thing to hook up/run power to.

[kasbrey]

I know the feeling. I've always ended up going back to plugging straight in to the amp before (I've tried Sansamp RBI, POD plus so many other units).
This time I know I cannot do without this pedal. It really does make a radical difference.
The Markbass TTE 500 looks interesting maybe ?

[B String]

Originally Posted by Couvy

That Streamliner 900 and 2x Baer ML112 idea sounds like exactly what I'm looking for. How is it for upright? Also, I was reading the specs and I'm a little worried about the low end rolling off at 55hz. I'm still interested, just wanted to make sure that it's healthy on the low end girth side.

I've learned not to get too into specs. Its more about how it sounds. We kept raising the low end up till it was a big enough low end without loosing the low mids. I used one ML112 for an outside gig using a 5 string. The guys were amazed at the big lows and volume for the size of the box. Plus it has articulation up the wazoo.

I used to use an Epifani UL210 because it had great volume and lows. The problem was the tone. No where near as even as the Baer cab, especially in the low mids. (no booty) My UL310 is a bit closer to the ML112 tone and volume. Plus, it just kills with my upright bass using my AI Focus head.
I usually use a Genz 9.0 with the ML-112. I don't find myself rolling in the lows too much. The Streamliner could be a very good sonic match with the ML112. I think Kjung has done this.

[Couvy]

Just ordered a Streamliner 900 and put my other stuff on Craigslist, so I guess I'm committed!