Sound & size similar to the LittleMark II but more wattage?

[Kwesi]

So, I need more volume and I pretty much have two ways of doing that right now: 1) Get a 4 ohm cab or 2) Get a head with more watts but will still give me the tone I want. I would rather keep my cab (a Hartke HX410) because it just sounds great but, I don't know what micro heads could get me the LMII sound at 800ish watts. I've heard that the LM 800 and LMTube 800 sound significantly different than the LM II and I'm not so sure that I want that. Any suggestions?

[bongomania]

Honestly I'd recommend getting a second 4x10 cab. That would be the best way to get the tone you have now but with a lot more volume.

[KJung]

If you get a 4ohm 410 of similar high SPL, that LM will kick. If you want to keep your 8ohm 410, the Shuttle 9 will give you a bit more booty at 8ohms, but will be much brighter and tighter (not necessarily a bad thing).

Of course, if you want to get your wallet out, the TecAmp Puma1000 and the Walter Woods just cruise along at 8ohms, but your are talking North of $2,000.

I would personally keep the LM and get a cab better matched to it (and lighter). However, if you want to keep that cab, you might at least try the Shuttle 9... pretty impressive at 8ohms, and smaller than the LM!

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Honestly I'd recommend getting a second 4x10 cab. That would be the best way to get the tone you have now but with a lot more volume.

Trying to stay on the small side of things with the cabs. I just took my HX410 + Ibanez Promethean on a cookout gig and I was clipping something fierce when the band starting goin' at it. The tone was great but I need more volume without clipping my amp. I guess another alternative would be 2x210 cabs but if I did that I'd like to have another Hartke 5210C modified into the cab only to match the one I have currently.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by KJung

If you get a 4ohm 410 of similar high SPL, that LM will kick. If you want to keep your 8ohm 410, the Shuttle 9 will give you a bit more booty at 8ohms, but will be much brighter and tighter (not necessarily a bad thing).

Of course, if you want to get your wallet out, the TecAmp Puma1000 and the Walter Woods just cruise along at 8ohms, but your are talking North of $2,000.

I would personally keep the LM and get a cab better matched to it (and lighter). However, if you want to keep that cab, you might at least try the Shuttle 9... pretty impressive at 8ohms, and smaller than the LM!

The Shuttle 9 is exactly what I was thinking of but I didn't like the Shuttle 6 so much (not terrible just liked the LMII more) so I'm a little hesitant but realistically I don't have many options so I'll try one when I get the chance. If I do decide to find a 4 ohm 410 or 2 210s I might just stick with my Promethean.

As far as the pricey stuff goes, I can't see myself paying over $750 for any single piece of amplification gear I haven't had to even come close to that to find great tone so I stick around that price range. In fact my current head/cab setup is roughly $750 altogether .

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

The Shuttle 9 is exactly what I was thinking of but I didn't like the Shuttle 6 so much (not terrible just liked the LMII more) so I'm a little hesitant but realistically I don't have many options so I'll try one when I get the chance. If I do decide to find a 4 ohm 410 or 2 210s I might just stick with my Promethean.

As far as the pricey stuff goes, I can't see myself paying over $750 for any single piece of amplification gear I haven't had to even come close to that to find great tone so I stick around that price range. In fact my current head/cab setup is roughly $750 altogether .

I am not a fan of the Shuttle 6 either. The 9 though, has more ooomph down low, and even though I still feel that the Genz power ratings are 'hopeful', it sounds darn loud, and sounds good at 8ohms.

[Vinny D]

I am in the "Get a second cab" camp

If you like the sound of your 410 cab, get another one.
It's the easiest way to get more volume.
I don't believe going to a slightly larger amplifier is going to help you all that much.

If you are happy with your tone, get the second cab.

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

I just took my HX410 + Ibanez Promethean on a cookout gig and I was clipping something fierce when the band starting goin' at it. The tone was great but I need more volume without clipping my amp.

Then you need to look at exactly what was clipping. The input stage of the amp? The EQ stage? The output stage? The speakers? The answer to this question will determine the solution. Adding wattage is not necessarily going to help.

[WJGreer]

Kwesi, I've never used a Hartke HX410. I did own an LMII for quite a while, and played it through several speaker combinations. I never felt like it lacked push - at all. I wonder if there may be something else going on with your rig.

I still have an F1. It's got those hybrid Speakon/quarter inch speaker cable jacks, and I have concluded that it does not like using quarter inch cables. All else constant, I think it delivers substantially more of whatever it delivers to the speaker cabinets using Speakons. Is that something you could try?

I got a Shuttle 9.0 recently, BTW. I love it, love it, love it, but it is IMO a different sounding amp than the LMII. It's more sizzly on top and bigger on bottom, and not as aggressive in the middle. Flat, that is.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Vinny D

I am in the "Get a second cab" camp

If you like the sound of your 410 cab, get another one.
It's the easiest way to get more volume.
I don't believe going to a slightly larger amplifier is going to help you all that much.

If you are happy with your tone, get the second cab.

Again, consider getting a second cab not an option. There's no way I'm taking two 410s to a cookout gig, lol. The only chance I'd be looking at two cabs is with 2 210s and I have found only one 210 that I like as much as my 410 and as it stands, it's a one-off. That said I haven't tried that many 210s.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Then you need to look at exactly what was clipping. The input stage of the amp? The EQ stage? The output stage? The speakers? The answer to this question will determine the solution. Adding wattage is not necessarily going to help.

Well the cab is rated for 500 watts @ 8 ohms and the amp (an Ibanez Promethean) is rated for 250 watts @ 8 ohms and assuming that these figures are at least close to correct this would be the input stage clipping, right? The EQ is virtually flat. I figure that by getting a head that puts out around 350+ watts @ 8 ohms I'd have the wiggle room I want in terms of volume.

I'm not sure if wattage is the answer here but with my old LMII I NEVER clipped and with the Promethean (which is rated for 50 watts less @ 8 ohms) I'm clipping frequently. Like the tone but not the headroom provided. I'd move back to the LMII but I'm really enjoying the option of having a headphone out, that's another thread though .

[bongomania]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Well the cab is rated for 500 watts @ 8 ohms and the amp (an Ibanez Promethean) is rated for 250 watts @ 8 ohms and assuming that these figures are at least close to correct this would be the input stage clipping, right?

Nope, wattage has nothing to do with input clipping. Here's what to do: recreate the situation as best you can. Play as loud as you did at the cookout, as energetically as you did, and every so often stop and adjust the input gain and output master volume knobs.

If turning the input gain knob down (and turning up the master vol. to compensate) reduces/stops the clipping, then that indicates you were clipping the input. Wattage has nothing to do with that. If turning the master volume knob down reduces/stops the clipping, then you were clipping the output stage. More wattage (or more efficient speakers) can help with that. If the EQ was set mostly flat then the EQ is probably not the issue, though there are usually a few stages between input and output where clipping may occur; they can be investigated by experimentation with different knob settings.

Originally Posted by Kwesi

I figure that by getting a head that puts out around 350+ watts @ 8 ohms I'd have the wiggle room I want in terms of volume.

You'd be surprised how little difference there is between 250W and 350W, when all else is equal.

Originally Posted by Kwesi

my old LMII I NEVER clipped and with the Promethean (which is rated for 50 watts less @ 8 ohms) I'm clipping frequently.

Then there was something besides wattage going on, because there is no way on earth that 50 watts made any difference whatsoever in this regard.

[Kwesi]

Oi! This is more complicated than I'd care to study up on. It seems like I getting clipping on both the input and output stages (the Promethean has clip indicators on both the gain and volume). I've messed around with the master volume and input gain plenty and the results are the same. I think the solution for me is not to think so much about it and just find a setup that gets me what I want

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

Oi! This is more complicated than I'd care to study up on.

C'mon, it's simple. Turn the Gain and Master all the way down. Turn your bass's volume all the way up. Play, and start turning up the Gain until the light blinks when you play hard. Now start bringing up the Master until you have the desired volume. That's it. If you increase the Master too far, it's Clip light will blink, and you'll hear the clipping, too.

Also, keep in mind that outdoors, you need something like 10 times the wattage(and the speakers to handle it) that you'd need indoors, for the same amount of volume.

[rpsands]

I am really starting to think about a SuperBooster pedal and a lightweight power amp as a giggable solution. A 2u airhead on a cabinet and you'd be set.

Still can't find any data on the hotness of the SuperBooster's output, but it looks like it will be enough to drive a power amp.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by dmusic148

C'mon, it's simple. Turn the Gain and Master all the way down. Turn your bass's volume all the way up. Play, and start turning up the Gain until the light blinks when you play hard. Now start bringing up the Master until you have the desired volume. That's it. If you increase the Master too far, it's Clip light will blink, and you'll hear the clipping, too.

Also, keep in mind that outdoors, you need something like 10 times the wattage(and the speakers to handle it) that you'd need indoors, for the same amount of volume.

Yeah, by fiddling with the knobs that's exactly what I meant and I'm clipping the gain at 12 o'clock and the volume at like 7 o'clock. Like I said I don't know anything about all this stuff but my bass has a REALLY hot output, like Spector hot. Could that be a factor?

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by rpsands

I am really starting to think about a SuperBooster pedal and a lightweight power amp as a giggable solution. A 2u airhead on a cabinet and you'd be set.

Still can't find any data on the hotness of the SuperBooster's output, but it looks like it will be enough to drive a power amp.

Not too big on that idea because I like having a fully featured preamp but do what works for you.

[fourfinger]

Originally Posted by bongomania

Honestly I'd recommend getting a second 4x10 cab. That would be the best way to get the tone you have now but with a lot more volume.

+1

You want more volume -- nothing beats a second cab for that. Also gets you better tone at med. to loud volume. Doesn't have to be another 4x10, but that would be what I'd recommend too, if you can carry them both.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by fourfinger

+1

You want more volume -- nothing beats a second cab for that. Also gets you better tone at med. to loud volume. Doesn't have to be another 4x10, but that would be what I'd recommend too, if you can carry them both.

Again, thanks but not an option.

[fourfinger]

Oh I should have kept on reading, no second 410 cab. Sorry!

You could do the two 2x10s though, if the 2 together are louder than your 4x10. Then your "cookout" gigs will be lighter with just one of them.