Speaker Builders Chime In Yam.BBT110S Cab

joegeezer · #1 11-07-2006, 03:49 PM

Just got two Yamaha BBT110S cabs today. Hooked them up to my Eden WT-405. Pushing them at 300 watts each. 600 at 2 from the amp. These little boxes are amazing. I've never been rich, so I can't say about the high buck tens that Tom B. tests, but man, the low end is real big, and crisp highs from the Beyma tweeter. I checked the Beyma tweeter specs, and as Bill F. said, it is very efficient, at 107db. Now I am trying to understand how to read WIN-ISD, and every time I test something, I get more cornfused. I e-mailed Eminence and got this drivers specs. It's the 101307 Driver 4 Ohms. Specs are:
Qts .31
Fs 39.4
Re 3.64
Le .52
Vas 84.9
Xmax 4.76
Qms 4.93
Qes .33
SPL 93.8
Pe 225
Bl 9.51
Sd 350.1
Now, figureing the shelf port as part of the internal box volume, I get it at 1.17 cu.ft. The shelf port is 1/2x14x9 1/2 deep. That should get the port tuning of the box right at 32.5hz. WIN-ISD shows the box down 3db at 76hz, and the curve they show, to my eye, and thinking would say that this box would be very weak at low end, but it exactly the opposite! This box rocks!! This is the very best sounding ten inch speaker I've ever heard, thats for sure. These two as a pair beat out any 210 cab I've ever had the pleasure to flog. WHY IS IT??? Why does it look weak on paper?? I was very lucky to snag these two from tjh here on the site. Yamaha is making a mistake by discontinuing these babys, If you guys ever see any for sale, grab them. I see that the driver also has a heavy 56oz magnet on it. The same size magnet as my favorite driver, the Delta12LF. This will now be my main small rig. My Avatar SB112's will be the next step up for more volume at bigger gigs. Mine are the Delta12LF's. Just can't say enough on how great sounding these tens are. All you guys who are better at this than the rest of us boneheads out here, fill us all in on why these things sound so good. I may just delete the WIN-ISD progran from my computer. It doesn't seem to tell me anything at all, the more I use it. What am I not seeing here??????? Thanks Joe

greenboy · #2 11-07-2006, 03:52 PM

If you had the actual specs on just about everybody else's drivers/cabs and modeled them they'd look weaker "on paper" too. Don't blame WinISD for this though.

joegeezer · #3 11-07-2006, 03:55 PM

No, I was just kidding about deleteing it. It just frustrates me. I will now look at this cabs specs as a guide when doing other checks on cabs though, and use this graph curve, as sort of a test curve.

alexclaber · #4 11-07-2006, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegeezer

Now, figureing the shelf port as part of the internal box volume, I get it at 1.17 cu.ft.

The port isn't part of the box volume which will raise the tuning frequency compared to your sums.

Alex

joegeezer · #5 11-07-2006, 05:09 PM

OK then, it figures out to a box volume of 1.13 cu.ft. and a port tuning of 33.25hz, with an F3 of still at 76hz. Still about the same. I figured it both ways, not knowing if you figure the ports volume in on total box volume or not. Still tells me nothing.

BillyB_from_LZ · #6 11-07-2006, 06:03 PM

Thanks for posting the T-S parameters on the speaker. I had emailed Eminence about this a couple weeks ago and never received an answer...

BillyB_from_LZ · #7 11-07-2006, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegeezer

...Still tells me nothing.

It probably tells you how little fundamental there is in a bass note...and if your cabinet gets the harmonics right, your brain makes up the difference.

seamonkey · #8 11-07-2006, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyB_from_LZ

It probably tells you how little fundamental there is in a bass note...and if your cabinet gets the harmonics right, your brain makes up the difference.

+1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental

Which leads me to take opinions like "tight", "punchy", "warm", "ballsy", ... with a grain of salt. I'd get these better if the measurements were actually published, and everyone agreed that a certain measurement characteristic match a certain description.

Internet buying - a fact of life.

fdeck · #9 11-07-2006, 08:35 PM

A simpler explanation is just that the OP likes the sound of a speaker with some low end rolloff. So do I.

All those subjective terms, just ignore them.

billfitzmaurice · #10 11-08-2006, 06:58 AM

There's nothing all that special about either the driver or cab that I can see. The f3 is average, though the rolloff below f3 is less severe than most due to the lower than usual fs and fb. If anything there's much less midbass hump than most. I'd chalk up most of the apparant power to the 2 ohm load, that gives 6dB more sensitivity than an 8 ohm 2x10, 3dB more than a 4 ohm 2x10, but driven to full power it all evens out anyway.

bgavin · #11 11-08-2006, 07:01 AM

This box appears to be pretty close to correctly engineered for this driver. Wonder of wonders... ain't it amazin' how nice they sound when the cab is correctly matched to the driver.

I added your driver data to my spread sheet, and the optimal volumes are 1.16 to 1.26 cubic feet, depending on the tuning model.

The F3 is just under 60 Hz for all tunings, meaning the driver is fully performing for 2nd harmonics, even on a 5 string. Take care to not over drive it. Even though the cab won't produce the fundamentals, they will still damage the driver if over powered.

billfitzmaurice · #12 11-08-2006, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgavin

This box appears to be pretty close to correctly engineered for this driver. Wonder of wonders... ain't it amazin' how nice they sound when the cab is correctly matched to the driver.

It seems to be old school tuning, fs=fb. Not exactly state of the art, but with the specs of this driver it works pretty well. The specs don't come close to anything in the Alpha/Beta/Gamma or Legend series, so I'd guess it's a fairly old model. It's a safe bet it got dropped because it actually runs too flat for the average OEM user taste. Or lack of.

bgavin · #13 11-08-2006, 08:39 AM

Fs=Fb is SBB4 tuning. IMO the adjective is superfluous because it is what it is.

SBB4 offers the tightest bass response through reduced group delay. Mathematically, SBB4 appears to me as the vented equivalent of the D2 sealed alignment, which also offers the tightest bass, albeit with rolloff begining at a higher frequency.

The volume requirements between Flat, SBB4, and QB3 vary only within 0.1 cubic feet of each other for this driver. The tuning frequency is the variant. SBB4 tunes at 39.4 Hz, QB3 at 50.2 Hz, and Flat at 51.6 Hz.

This box is a far cry from the Eden boxes with the big mid-bass hump resulting from stuffing a big driver(s) into a tiny box. It would be interesting to see if JoeGeezer likes this box in a mix vs. standalone. Hump boxes like Eden seem to have better cut-through in live noise. I suspect this one might shine in areas where the players don't step on each others' space, such as jazz or country.

BobWestbrook · #14 11-08-2006, 10:09 AM

Wish I could get ahold of one or two. I waited too long, now they are gone from MF....

BillyB_from_LZ · #15 11-08-2006, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobWestbrook

Wish I could get ahold of one or two. I waited too long, now they are gone from MF....

The credit for the one I returned to www.guitarcenter.com showed up on my credit card statement...perhaps they still have the cabinet.

joegeezer · #16 11-08-2006, 12:41 PM

Well, I gotta say thats as close as I have ever heard Bill F. and B Gavin come to giving a cab the OK in their books, nod. Evidently this cab is well thought out in design. It sure sounds it to my ear. These have got to be the best tens out there for the money ever, in my book. I would say, that if all the Talkbass guys got together, and e-mailed Yamaha, maybe we could talk them into making another run of them. Probably doubtfull however. Too bad. It figures just when we all find out about something that is really good, we are all a day late and a dollar short. Anytime anybody sees these up for sale, grab 'em quick, they are worth every penny.

DWBass · #17 11-08-2006, 03:34 PM

I'm happy I got my pair and the head this summer! I played a gig with this setup and my band couldn't believe the sound coming outta those little cabs!

bgavin · #18 11-09-2006, 04:20 AM

This certainly is not the end of decent sounding cabs.

As noted above, the driver isn't anything particularly wonderful... it was just properly enclosed. There are many good drivers available to the DIY'er willing to invest a little time in a properly matched cabinet.

tombowlus · #19 11-09-2006, 07:06 AM

Some time back in a forgotten thread, I made an offhand remark something like, "if you hear it, you hear it, right?" Being someone who is mildly curious regarding the various specs of particular items, I really find that how it sounds to a human brain via human ears is more compelling than a discussion of stats. Much like any form of news media, I have become inherently distrustful of quoted stats, and I trust what I hear more than what I read.

That said, I have to say again that these little cabs are real gems for the money. I'm not gonna throw out all of my more expensive 1x10's after hearing them, but the Yammies definitely do not have to hang their head in shame when put up to a head to head comparison. The tweeter (and perhaps crossover?) seems to be the weakest link, but even so, it doesn't sound bad at all. For $150, shipped, that MF deal was phenomenal, in my book.

Tom.

joegeezer · #20 11-09-2006, 10:13 AM

After see as I like the sound of these cabs so much, I thought it might be nice to build up a 410 cab using these drivers, so I called Yamaha to check on the price of replacement drivers for this cab. Ouch!! they want 170.00 ea. just for the drivers. Looks like I won't be buying any afterall. Hope I don't pop these two. Makes the price on these seem even better now. They do not offer a re-cone kit for them, only drivers. I better treat them nice then, I guess.