Speaker cone damage question

seedokebass · #1 10-16-2011, 06:12 PM

I have a set of four 10" speakers from an Aguilar GS410 that have this on the cones:

I'm not very knowledgeable on speaker repair, so my question is this: Is this a re-cone job, or can these be glued from the back? If it's a re-cone, I'll probably sell the set of 4 cheap, otherwise, if it can be repaired cheaper I'll do that and sell for more. I've had them for a couple years and it's time for them to go

will33 · #2 10-16-2011, 06:16 PM

Looks like either a seam where the cone meets the surround in which case it could be glued.

Or a crease in the cone in which case it's time for recone or replace. Notice anything on the front side as far as a crease or anything?

johnk_10 · #3 10-16-2011, 06:21 PM

from the pic it just looks like where the cone is bonded to the surround, so it doesn't really look damaged to me.

seedokebass · #4 10-16-2011, 06:21 PM

They look normal from the front. It appears to be a tear that goes all the way around, but only on the back side. It's near the edge of the cone, about 1/4" from the surround. Not under/behind any adhesive.

It really doesn't look bad, but boy they sounded bad!

johnk_10 · #5 10-16-2011, 06:22 PM

if it was a tear you'd see daylight thru it.

seedokebass · #6 10-16-2011, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

if it was a tear you'd see daylight thru it.

Good point! I'll go check that out

seedokebass · #7 10-16-2011, 06:31 PM

Checked it with a flashlight, could not see light coming through. I'm assuming they should be re-coned.

will33 · #8 10-16-2011, 06:41 PM

I've seen them before get old/dryrotted/weak/whatever and tear close to the glue seam but not right on it. I assume the glue seam gives some extra strength and your 1/4" away maybe where it's just weak paper.

As john said, you'd see through a full tear. I guess if they sound like crap they're definitly bad.

Could try beefing it up with a bead of superglue along that line but that's more of a "get you through tonights gig" thing and not any kind of good repair. If you have another cab to use I wouldn't waste the time and effort.

**B-string** · #9 10-16-2011, 06:42 PM

That is damage from over excursion. The paper is creased and re-cone is the only sure fix.

seedokebass · #10 10-16-2011, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Could try beefing it up with a bead of superglue along that line but that's more of a "get you through tonights gig" thing and not any kind of good repair. If you have another cab to use I wouldn't waste the time and effort.

That's what I was thinking, but definitely not a strong, long term repair by any means.

These are just sitting around, because I got rid of the cab they came from years ago. I was hanging on to them with the intent of putting them in another cab, but now I just don't care

To Craigslist they go!

What do you think these are worth, given a re-cone would be $50-60?

will33 · #11 10-16-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by seedokebass

That's what I was thinking, but definitely not a strong, long term repair by any means.

These are just sitting around, because I got rid of the cab they came from years ago. I was hanging on to them with the intent of putting them in another cab, but now I just don't care

To Craigslist they go!

What do you think these are worth, given a re-cone would be $50-60?

Don't know but I'd see what Aguilar charges for replacements and adjust from there. If they are creased I'd recone them or pass them along as needing reconing. The glue thing in the case of a crease like that is just a last ditch effort to squeeze a couple more hours use out of it until the speaker store opens monday morning.

will33 · #12 10-16-2011, 06:53 PM

FWIW, tears and seams coming apart can be glued and keep on playing. I have some I did that to 4 or 5 years ago and still play them.

Once a cone is creased it'll never be the same...it's just shot, that's all.

SactoBass · #13 10-16-2011, 07:02 PM

To me it looks like creasing due to overexcursion.

This is, unfortunately, all too common in the bass playing world, because the wattage rating of most mass produced bass cabs is a thermal rating, which is, in nearly all cases, quite a bit higher than the mechanical limits of the drivers. In other words, if a cab is rated by the manufacturer at 350 watts RMS, that means it can take 350 watts of continuous power before melting the voice coils, but that really doesn't mean much because the mechanical limits of the drivers cannot handle 350 watts.......probably more like around 175 to 200 (depending on a number of factors).

That's why nearly all manufacturers publish the thermal rating......it sounds so much better! (and therefore sells cabs!)

seedokebass · #14 10-16-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

Don't know but I'd see what Aguilar charges for replacements and adjust from there. If they are creased I'd recone them or pass them along as needing reconing. The glue thing in the case of a crease like that is just a last ditch effort to squeeze a couple more hours use out of it until the speaker store opens monday morning.

Good idea, I'll check into that. I figured sell them as damaged for $20 each, all four for $60. Or something like that!

will33 · #15 10-16-2011, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SactoBass

To me it looks like creasing due to overexcursion.

This is, unfortunately, all too common in the bass playing world, because the wattage rating of most mass produced bass cabs is a thermal rating, which is, in nearly all cases, quite a bit higher than the mechanical limits of the drivers. In other words, if a cab is rated by the manufacturer at 350 watts RMS, that means it can take 350 watts of continuous power before melting the voice coils, but that really doesn't mean much because the mechanical limits of the drivers cannot handle 350 watts.......probably more like around 175 to 200 (depending on a number of factors).

That's why nearly all manufacturers publish the thermal rating......it sounds so much better! (and therefore sells cabs!)

+1

The result of making the cone move farther than it's made to due to too much power, too much bass boost or both.

Jerrold Tiers · #16 10-16-2011, 08:38 PM

Another vote for over-excursion...... they are approaching "toast" status if they sound bad.

If they do not, they WILL..... and not too long from now, probably.

johnk_10 · #17 10-16-2011, 09:01 PM

i always thought that over excursion damage was actually easier to see from the front of the cone.

**B-string** · #18 10-16-2011, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnk_10

i always thought that over excursion damage was actually easier to see from the front of the cone.

Unfortunately not always John.

It can be hidden on the inside of the cone. You could feel a weak spot from the front side.

Note the tight bond on the front side of the cone paper (smooth) and "loose" bond (rough) on the inside.

SactoBass · #19 10-16-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

+1

The result of making the cone move farther than it's made to due to too much power, too much bass boost or both.

Exactly!

In a perfect world, bass cab manufacturers would publish the mechanical wattage rating (throughout the bass frequency spectrum) as well as the thermal rating. The former would, in nearly all cases, be lower than the latter.

Will mass produced bass cab manufacturers ever publish that info? Nope. Why?? Because the plaid-jacket-wearing, big cigar smoking marketing types want their products to look impressive to the buying public. Non-savvy bass players end up paying the price with problems such as creased cones. Thank goodness for Talkbass.....where bassists can learn the truth and not fall for the "snake oil" specs.

JimmyM · #20 10-16-2011, 09:47 PM

Ampeg publishes real world specs on their cabs. They're not afraid to tell you a 400w handling 410 really only handles 400w. Hasn't hurt sales any, either.