Speaker Crease help???

Thumpinthenight · #1 02-28-2011, 07:21 AM

I have an Epifani ul-112 cab with an eminence 12" woofer that looks perfect. On higher volume, it deveops a slight distortion. I removed the grille for closer inspection, gently pushed up and down on the cone to listen and feel for something strange, and I hear nothing, but noticed about 2" away from the center ring, there is a 3/4" crease that only appears when you push down. Question - can this be repaired by maybe using a glue or something to re-stiffen up this area, or do I need to replace the entire speaker. A Factory replacement is ~ $225.

Arjank · #2 02-28-2011, 07:29 AM

I don't think it's repairable because the paperfibers have been "broken".
I also had the same problem on the cones of a Alpha8a near the suspension. I treated the new speakers I got with polyurethane leaquer (both sides of the cones and leave the suspension alone). It drenches the paperfibers and when dried up it makes the cones stiffer. With alpha 8a's it worked fine it also made the cone behave better in the mids. The cones also didn't crease again.
Before you buy a new one you can try this and see if it works for the 12"

billfitzmaurice · #3 02-28-2011, 07:53 AM

A crease is caused by over-excursion, so you should consider adding another cab, as you're trying to get too much out of just one. Repairing a crease is a dicey proposition at best. $225 for an Eminence 12 is outrageous. Even top of the line 3012s go for $75 less than that on average.

Arjank · #4 02-28-2011, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Repairing a crease is a dicey proposition at best.

Yes it is, but he can allways try, it will cost you allmost nothing.

jimbilly · #5 02-28-2011, 10:41 AM

My friends Epifani 10's cabinet (I think it's a 3x10) has the same issue, I'm told that's a lot more common with 10" speakers than 12s. It is an odd problem, it sounds fine at low volumes but sounds really bad at any think over quiet.
If it were mine, I'd try to 'fix' it just as an experiment, but plan on buying a new speaker. I'd try making a paper ring that would fit over the 'fold', maybe find a dead speaker somewhere to scrap the paper off of. I've had really good luck over the past 25 years using RTV silicone gasket sealer for speaker repairs. I've got my first real guitar amp sitting here (ampeg vt40) that I bought in 1985, it had a couple small tears in the speakers that I repaired using that RTV stuff, - it's still a solid repair. I've used it on other speakers too, it's strong and stays pliable/flexible so it won't create a stress riser like a hard glue would do. I'd glue that paper patch/ring over the fold with rtv silcone and see how it holds up and sounds.

Bob Lee (QSC) · #6 02-28-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

A crease is caused by over-excursion, so you should consider adding another cab, as you're trying to get too much out of just one. Repairing a crease is a dicey proposition at best. $225 for an Eminence 12 is outrageous. Even top of the line 3012s go for $75 less than that on average.

+1

Thumpinthenight · #7 02-28-2011, 11:18 AM

Okay, a bit more info here. This speaker is a Neo, 300 watt RMS/600 peak Eminence, 44Hz-16kHz, 100db sensitivity. $225. As far as a replacement goes, can I just get a replacement speaker close to those specs; looking at http://www.usspeaker.com/homepage.htm?? Sorry it's this one: Delta-12LFA by Eminence.
More - I do use another identical Ul-112 with factory specs, as a second cabinet. If I replace that speaker with the "non-neo" one, do I need to replace the other as well to match? Of course this takes me close to the original $225 anyways.
This all comes after I attempt to "repair" that creased one first. Any further thoughts?

BassmanPaul · #8 02-28-2011, 11:23 AM

If it's a standard Eminence driver there should be a re-cone kit available. This will be much cheaper and your driver will be as new.

Arjank · #9 02-28-2011, 12:14 PM

Quote:

f it's a standard Eminence driver there should be a re-cone kit available. This will be much cheaper and your driver will be as new.

True, but it will not solve the creasing. Treat the new cone with polyurethane laquer on both sides, let it dry thoroughly between layers add at least two layers.

billfitzmaurice · #10 02-28-2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumpinthenight

Okay, a bit more info here. This speaker is a Neo, 300 watt RMS/600 peak Eminence, 44Hz-16kHz, 100db sensitivity. ?

Those aren't specs. These are specs:
http://www.eminence.com/support/unde...dspeaker-data/

Chances are the original is a Deltalite or Deltalite II 2512 variant. They run about $100.

Thumpinthenight · #11 02-28-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

True, but it will not solve the creasing. Treat the new cone with polyurethane laquer on both sides, let it dry thoroughly between layers add at least two layers.

Okay, Thanks. I will try the repair.

BassmanPaul · #12 02-28-2011, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arjank

True, but it will not solve the creasing. Treat the new cone with polyurethane laquer on both sides, let it dry thoroughly between layers add at least two layers.

No it won't solve the creasing issue only adding more cones will do that. At least the driver will be functional again. What you are suggesting will alter the drivers parameters causing who know what ramifications. Creasing is caused by too much power pushing the driver past both Xmax and Xlim. Thus mechanical failure.

anonymous02282011 · #13 02-28-2011, 01:09 PM

who quoted you $225 for the replacement speaker ?

Thumpinthenight · #14 02-28-2011, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adbass

who quoted you $225 for the replacement speaker ?

Actually "Mario" from Epifani. Price actually was $242.99, with a 10% discount if you buy two. I was also looking elsewhere. Any other Ideas??

Bass_Pounder · #15 02-28-2011, 01:52 PM

Heck..........I'm pretty sure I only paid $250 to get 2 Eminence 3012HO's

Arjank · #16 03-01-2011, 01:54 AM

Quote:

No it won't solve the creasing issue only adding more cones will do that. At least the driver will be functional again. What you are suggesting will alter the drivers parameters causing who know what ramifications. Creasing is caused by too much power pushing the driver past both Xmax and Xlim. Thus mechanical failure

Like I said in post #2 it worked very good for my Alpha8a's.
The drivers parameters will not alter significantly, the addes mass for a 12" woofer will be peanuts....

Yes, when pushed to xlim creasing can(will) happen. That's why manufacturers need to use a progressive susspension. This will slighty increase the suspension stiffness when the drivers gets over it's xmax. And prevents the driver from getting damaged. The Alpha8a does not have such a suspension, it keeps the same stiffness throughout it's movingrange and just stops at a certain point. Thats why I stiffened the cones to prevent if from creasing when pushed to hard.

Thumpinthenight · #17 03-01-2011, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

Those aren't specs. These are specs:
http://www.eminence.com/support/unde...dspeaker-data/

Chances are the original is a Deltalite or Deltalite II 2512 variant. They run about $100.

Where are you guys getting these cheaper quotes on speakers?? For $100 for a new neo replacement, I'd like to look into that.

billfitzmaurice · #18 03-01-2011, 06:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thumpinthenight

Where are you guys getting these cheaper quotes on speakers?? For $100 for a new neo replacement, I'd like to look into that.

www.speakerhardware.com