Speaker experts, 1212R -> L conversion ?

[StayLow]

I'm borrowing a Schroeder 1212R and wondering what neo 12" speakers might be a good fit for it, in trying to reduce the weight and keep or even improve the sound. Stock speakers are an Eminence, and I have no more info than that.

I realize I could ask Schroeder which speakers were used in the L series, but I thought there might be better speakers come down the pike since then.

It seems to me the company is moving away from the internal baffled design, and I wonder what fans of the brand think about that.

Thanks in advance for any input. I appreciate the valuable info provided on this forums by people such as Greenboy, Bill Fitzmaurice, rpsands and others.

[billfitzmaurice]

I can't venture an opinion without detailed specs of the cabinet.

[StayLow]

Thanks Bill. You mean the dimensions? It's a tough one to measure due to the internal diagonal baffle and speaker. If approximate measures, say within an inch, and a verbal description will help, I can attept that.

[Gintaras]

I went through this with a 1010R. I called Jorge Schroeder and he shipped out the neo speakers that were needed for that cab. The cab sounded absolutely great after the change. Jorge said it would sound as if you just took the blanket of the cab. Highly recommend that route since it is his design.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by StayLow

Thanks Bill. You mean the dimensions? It's a tough one to measure due to the internal diagonal baffle and speaker. If approximate measures, say within an inch, and a verbal description will help, I can attept that.

The only way to make a precise judgment is with precise measurements. From what I've seen they don't appear all that complicated.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by StayLow

I'm borrowing a Schroeder 1212R and wondering what neo 12" speakers might be a good fit for it, in trying to reduce the weight and keep or even improve the sound. Stock speakers are an Eminence, and I have no more info than that.

I realize I could ask Schroeder which speakers were used in the L series, but I thought there might be better speakers come down the pike since then.

Nope, not likely. Jorg will sell you his OEM spec drivers for a very reasonable price, or at least he used to. I did that with a 1210, worked well.

[StayLow]

I appreciate the input. Did the sound change? If there's an effect 'like a blanket being removed' from the cab, I'm not sure I'd appreciate that since I like it as it is.

I've already measured as best I can, so let's at least see what Bill suggests based on that.

Measuring between inside edges, the internal dimensions are about 21 7/8 w x 14'' h x 14'' d. There's a hole 8 1/2 h x 7 w in the bottom-right corner. I say hole not port because in there is the angled recessed baffle with the other speaker in it.

That internal baffle is difficult for me to explain since it is diagonal from front of the cab to the back. At a point about 7 1/2'' in from the right side of the cab the entire edge of the cab's internal baffle is connected to the inner side of the front panel, just in from the edge of the front hole described above. At the back panel the inner baffle connects at a point about 1/2'' from the right side of the cab. There it shares a roughly 2'' connection to the back panel, then there are roughly 45-degree diagonal cuts along the internal baffle making triangular ports. Those cuts are about 8'' long, running from the 2'' connection to the back panel noted above and reaching to the top and bottom panels. The connections between the internal baffle and top & bottom of cab are maybe 9'' diagonal to the internal baffle's connection to the front panel.

Factor that inside the inner area of the cab is some maybe 1/4'' foam on the inner panels, bit of bracing, crossover, speaker connections and L-pad, wiring, a handle cup, and 2 12'' speakers. In the area between the internal baffle and front grill is a horn-style tweeter and 1 handle cup. The tweeter is mounted in the front baffle's upper-right corner.

The internal speaker fires partly into the tweeter & its baffle, and the side of the cabinet, resulting in most of the cab's low end and a muffled sound. The front-firing driver is mostly clear mids and highs. I do not know the tweeter's crossover point. As far as tweeters go, to my ears it isn't that harsh and at a moderate setting blends in fairly well.

Does that help any? Thanks.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by StayLow

I appreciate the input. Did the sound change? If there's an effect 'like a blanket being removed' from the cab, I'm not sure I'd appreciate that since I like it as it is.

I've already measured as best I can, so let's at least see what Bill suggests based on that.

Measuring between inside edges, the internal dimensions are about 21 7/8 w x 14'' h x 14'' d. There's a hole 8 1/2 h x 7 w in the bottom-right corner. I say hole not port because in there is the angled recessed baffle with the other speaker in it.

That internal baffle is difficult for me to explain since it is diagonal from front of the cab to the back. At a point about 7 1/2'' in from the right side of the cab the entire edge of the cab's internal baffle is connected to the inner side of the front panel, just in from the edge of the front hole described above. At the back panel the inner baffle connects at a point about 1/2'' from the right side of the cab. There it shares a roughly 2'' connection to the back panel, then there are roughly 45-degree diagonal cuts along the internal baffle making triangular ports. Those cuts are about 8'' long, running from the 2'' connection to the back panel noted above and reaching to the top and bottom panels. The connections between the internal baffle and top & bottom of cab are maybe 9'' diagonal to the internal baffle's connection to the front panel.

Factor that inside the inner area of the cab is some maybe 1/4'' foam on the inner panels, bit of bracing, crossover, speaker connections and L-pad, wiring, a handle cup, and 2 12'' speakers. In the area between the internal baffle and front grill is a horn-style tweeter and 1 handle cup. The tweeter is mounted in the front baffle's upper-right corner.

The internal speaker fires partly into the tweeter & its baffle, and the side of the cabinet, resulting in most of the cab's low end and a muffled sound. The front-firing driver is mostly clear mids and highs. I do not know the tweeter's crossover point. As far as tweeters go, to my ears it isn't that harsh and at a moderate setting blends in fairly well.

Does that help any? Thanks.

From what you're saying the net internal volume comes to no more than 2 cubic feet. That's about right for most 1x12s, but with a 2x12 will result in a thin low end, probably with a prominent midbass peak. If you're content with that tone the Deltalite II 2512 will work well, and it has a strong upper mid presence. If you'd prefer lower extension, flatter response and extremely high power handling the Kappalite 3012HO is a driver that works very well in smaller enclosures. If you don't need more than 300 watts power handling the Basslite 2012 works well enough, has a long xmax so there's no issue with insufficient displacement, and is a lot cheaper than the other two alternatives.

[StayLow]

Thanks again Bill. 2 cu. ft. sounds about right.

Based on what you wrote, I'd prefer the Kappalite.

Would something like that 3012HO go best in the internal slot or front-firing, in your opinion? They effectively share the same internal volume, but the front-firing is much more clearly heard.

Where's a good place to order something like that from?

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by StayLow

I appreciate the input. Did the sound change?

Not a bit, in all honesty. I only changed out the 10 in that one IIRC though. I have a friend who owns a 1210R and we compared cabs side by side at a TB GTG in a 300 capacity club.

Jorg's OEM drivers at that time were Deltalite IIs with a longer X-max spec.

I also owned a 21012R that I converted to L specs. That was my favorite sounding Schro cab, but I still wish I had kept the 1210, since that's the sweet spot size-wise for me.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by StayLow

Would something like that 3012HO go best in the internal slot or front-firing, in your opinion? They effectively share the same internal volume, but the front-firing is much more clearly heard.

Where's a good place to order something like that from?

If that means you're only replacing one driver you'd have to try it both ways to find your preference. I get everything I use from www.speakerhardware.com, for not only a good price but more important superior service.

[StayLow]

Thanks you both. I might try first one and then both.

[StayLow]

Bill, one more question if you don't mind.

Does it make any sense to mix a Kappalite HO with maybe an LF, or is the HO the only one suited to that size of cab from the Kappalite series?