Speaker frequency range

[nikolozj]

Let's say for 4 string bass. We know that it's range is 41-98hz and plus more.

Someone told me that a good speaker for bass would be 41hz-3khz

But a lot of the speakers that have at least 41hz response on bottom are much more expensive than those that have for example 45hz or 50 or 51 or more...

That, of course cuts off lower tones of the E string. Although you should be able to still hear some overtones that low E contains but still not complete E tone.

But there are still some speakers out there still marked as "bass replacement" speaker or "bass speaker" even tho they have like 51-4khz range.

So I was wondering, what's the "okay" range for bass speaker. Is it okay to go for 51-4khz or....

What's the standard? Will it make a big difference? Do all these fender and behringer or ibanez or any big brands follow the exact mathematical rules and put very strictly 41.204hz-4khz+ speakers in their combos?

[Arjank]

For 4-string you would need a cabinet with a response from approx. 80hz and up. You do not need the lowest octave since the lowest tone you hear from a low E is mostly the 2e harmonic and not the fundamental. Most cabinets for bass are tuned between 40 and 60hz which is even enough for a low B.

[SolarMan]

Speakers are way more complicated than that

a speaker range is for a certain dB level with rolloff below and above - it will still play lower and higher than the "range"

but then you need to consider the cabinet, etc...

a speaker with 51hz-4khz can sound fantastic in the proper enclosure

I know this is just the tip of the iceburg - others here know way, WAY more about it

(try searching in GOOGLE and add talkbass to your search string - you should find more info than you can imagine)

hope this helps

[nikolozj]

Google helps! And it helped me a lot of course! )) but I was looking for practical experiences. But google told me that bass guitar range is 41-98hz... so scientifically best speaker for bass would be from 41hz... But right now I just found out here in this thread that 80hz is okay for 4 string.

I'm doing general research so I'm asking for advices everyone.
I want to built my own combo. I've already built one with two 10" speakers and I needed to built filter and put one more small speaker for higher frequencies, because the main bass speakers didn't have good higher freq. response.

Now I want to use one good speaker that would do the whole job.

How high should higher end be? Is 3khz enough for everything, including slapping?

[seamonkey]

You don't need to hear the fundamental. Visit wikipedia on missing fundamental.

And smooth response up to 3k may be fine - for your tastes, but if you had a cabinet that went higher then you can always use EQ to roll off highs.

A good set of headphones will have a wide frequency response. Some way down to 20hz. Take some headphones and a music player application with graphic EQ, and a good bass solo track.

Roll off everything below 60 hz. then try 40hz,
Roll off 6k, then 3k
You find what you like. Then you can shop for a cabinet that has similar response. But only if your lucky enough to find accurate measurements from a bass cab maker.

Getting cabinets with a wider frequency range then using EQ is a good way to work it.
But again - you don't need to go as low as 41hz. 60hz or 70hz may be fine for your tastes.

[nikolozj]

How's this speaker for house practicing combo?

http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Alpha_12A.pdf

on some websites it says "stage monitors" although it's 51hz-4.3kh.

anyone can recommend better speaker? (60$ is the price I can afford)

other one (cheaper) I found is this
http://www.seismicaudiospeakers.com/...quake%2012.htm

[will33]

A lengthy, but very educational read on the subject here.....

Bass frequency/waterfall plots: what they mean to rigs

No, you don't need 41hz. Keep in mind the topend response is only on axis. The beaming frequency lowers as the cone gets bigger. IMO, that 4-5khz area pretty much is treble as far as a bass is concerned.

[will33]

The Alpha is a fine speaker for a small practice combo, works in sealed boxes too. I assume this is a lower powered amp?

The seismicaudio stuff is ultra cheap and doesn't give you a full set of real specs. No specs = no sale. Whatever they do give you is probably exaggerated anyway. The eminence will honestly do what it says it does. Remember the box it's in dictates it's lowend response. I assume this is a small "bedroom" or "around the house" practice amp? The Alpha will do just fine in there.

[nikolozj]

Originally Posted by will33

The Alpha is a fine speaker for a small practice combo, works in sealed boxes too. I assume this is a lower powered amp?

The seismicaudio stuff is ultra cheap and doesn't give you a full set of real specs. No specs = no sale. Whatever they do give you is probably exaggerated anyway. The eminence will honestly do what it says it does. Remember the box it's in dictates it's lowend response. I assume this is a small "bedroom" or "around the house" practice amp? The Alpha will do just fine in there.

Thanks for response!

well, my room is like 8 feet high and the area: 8x17feet (not counting furniture that fills almost half of the room).
I've already built TDA7294 (max 100W) IC power amp. Works fine. I'm using behringer mixer as a pre-amp replacement right now, but I'm planning to build this pre-amp with EQ:
Solid-state Fender Blackface Preamp - RED - Page120

and put it all together in nice box.

seismicaudio looks suspiciously cheap for me too, so I believe they may have some "mistakes" in their specs.

P.s. Is sealed boxes better? From my experience they give more boosted low tones.

[will33]

Originally Posted by nikolozj

Thanks for response!

well, my room is like 8 feet high and the area: 8x17feet (not counting furniture that fills almost half of the room).
I've already built TDA7294 (max 100W) IC power amp. Works fine. I'm using behringer mixer as a pre-amp replacement right now, but I'm planning to build this pre-amp with EQ:
Solid-state Fender Blackface Preamp - RED - Page120

and put it all together in nice box.

seismicaudio looks suspiciously cheap for me too, so I believe they may have some "mistakes" in their specs.

P.s. Is sealed boxes better? From my experience they give more boosted low tones.

Well, I sorta meant the cabinet the driver is in but you are correct in that the room you're playing the rig in also greatly affects the bass response.

Man, if you can build amps, you should pretty easily grasp the concepts behind designing speakers. Tons of great links in the "DIY/tech talk" Sticky up top there. In general, porting a cab enhances the bass output and extension lower and is then followed by a steep drop in response at the very bottom. The sealed cab begins to roll the bass off at a higher frequency but at a shallower rate, but there are many caveats there. There are several aspects of the individual driver design that makes them better suited for use in ported or sealed boxes while having poor performance in the opposite box design. There are some "in betweens" that can work either way.

[will33]

With a 100 watt input and a DIY design, may want to toss around some other driver/cab ideas. I thought you were jus looking for a replacement speaker for a little 30 watt combo or something.

[will33]

Let's back up a little and just start with your general design goals, output requirememts, size constraints, etc.

[nikolozj]

Originally Posted by will33

Well, I sorta meant the cabinet the driver is in but you are correct in that the room you're playing the rig in also greatly affects the bass response.

Man, if you can build amps, you should pretty easily grasp the concepts behind designing speakers. Tons of great links in the "DIY/tech talk" Sticky up top there. In general, porting a cab enhances the bass output and extension lower and is then followed by a steep drop in response at the very bottom. The sealed cab begins to roll the bass off at a higher frequency but at a shallower rate, but there are many caveats there. There are several aspects of the individual driver design that makes them better suited for use in ported or sealed boxes while having poor performance in the opposite box design. There are some "in betweens" that can work either way.

Well... I can build AN amp and haven't tried pre-amp yet, but that doesn't make me a pro in sound general
Technically I do understand basic specifications that I need to know about speakers (like power handling, frequency response, impedance, speaker diameter, magnet type..), but I'd rather always check and ask those who practically tried something I'm going for so I can also know practical experiences. Like there is a science with theoreticians and practicians and theories not always work in practice.

Back to the subject, I already have built two 10" 50W speaker box with 4" mid speaker. This additional third speaker was necessary because two main speakers had very short frequency range. It still doesn't sound good, anyway it was my first try.

So what I wanted to say... is that I experimented on this box, simply removing lid and putting it back on and what I heard was that difference in sound that you described up here.

What I'm looking for is maybe something "in between". I want to be able to pop and slap and have that clear tone of slapping and at the same time have very smooth and warm tone.

I definitely want to go for 12". I had almost decided 15" and then I changed my mind because I think 12" is enough for now.

Maybe I can manage to design some sort of convertible box? where you can remove the part of the back and put back whenever you want?

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by nikolozj

Google helps! And it helped me a lot of course! )) but I was looking for practical experiences. But google told me that bass guitar range is 41-98hz... so scientifically best speaker for bass would be from 41hz... But right now I just found out here in this thread that 80hz is okay for 4 string.

I'm doing general research so I'm asking for advices everyone.
I want to built my own combo. I've already built one with two 10" speakers and I needed to built filter and put one more small speaker for higher frequencies, because the main bass speakers didn't have good higher freq. response.

Now I want to use one good speaker that would do the whole job.

How high should higher end be? Is 3khz enough for everything, including slapping?

The range of the open strings on a 4-string is 41 hz (E) to 98 hz (G). However the 12th fret on the G string is 196 hz and, if you have a 24-fret neck, the next octave of the G is 392 hz. So the range of the bass is actually 41 hz to 392 hz, or a little less (349 hz) on a 22-fret neck.

You need higher frequency response in your speakers because the overtones of the fundamental are responsible for a large part of your overall tone.

[will33]

Originally Posted by nikolozj

Well... I can build AN amp and haven't tried pre-amp yet, but that doesn't make me a pro in sound general
Technically I do understand basic specifications that I need to know about speakers (like power handling, frequency response, impedance, speaker diameter, magnet type..), but I'd rather always check and ask those who practically tried something I'm going for so I can also know practical experiences. Like there is a science with theoreticians and practicians and theories not always work in practice.

Back to the subject, I already have built two 10" 50W speaker box with 4" mid speaker. This additional third speaker was necessary because two main speakers had very short frequency range. It still doesn't sound good, anyway it was my first try.

So what I wanted to say... is that I experimented on this box, simply removing lid and putting it back on and what I heard was that difference in sound that you described up here.

What I'm looking for is maybe something "in between". I want to be able to pop and slap and have that clear tone of slapping and at the same time have very smooth and warm tone.

I definitely want to go for 12". I had almost decided 15" and then I changed my mind because I think 12" is enough for now.

Maybe I can manage to design some sort of convertible box? where you can remove the part of the back and put back whenever you want?

Openback cabs and bass = blown speakers. They need the enclosure. You could make a design where you can plug the ports and run sealed if you want. That would require a driver that could at least work "ok" in both designs.

Any speaker design is a series of tradeoff's, there is no "1 that can do it all". With your smallish amp, you could give up some excursion for a higher response in the hopes of getting what you want. In a lower powered design like that, a whizzer cone driver might be one possible solution.

This is a great place to start reading, in addition to the waterfall thread I linked to earlier. The Speaker Building Bible - Thread opened for edits/input. - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video, and Electronics Customer Discussion Forum From Parts-Express.com

[will33]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

The range of the open strings on a 4-string is 41 hz (E) to 98 hz (G). However the 12th fret on the G string is 196 hz and, if you have a 24-fret neck, the next octave of the G is 392 hz. So the range of the bass is actually 41 hz to 392 hz, or a little less (349 hz) on a 22-fret neck.

You need higher frequency response in your speakers because the overtones of the fundamental are responsible for a large part of your overall tone.

+1

I think the OP may be confusing some information on frequency. The higher harmonics are the tone, sense of pitch.....all that.