Speaker for mids/upper mids

nifaron1 · #1 10-19-2011, 01:09 PM

Hello! I play a MIJ P-Bass thru a Music Man HD150 into an Avatar B212 Neo cabinet.

My problem is this: I'm not getting the mid range clarity/warmth that I would like... my best midrange tone has been when playing thru a guitar amp into Celestion Greenback speakers. Greenbacks of course, can't handle the 150watts that the Musicman head can dish out tho, nor do they support the low end.

Thanks!
Aaron

majortoby · #2 10-19-2011, 01:44 PM

It will be suggested many times that you look into the "fEarful" cabinets. This is the first of those suggestions.

will33 · #3 10-19-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majortoby

It will be suggested many times that you look into the "fEarful" cabinets. This is the first of those suggestions.

Always a good suggestion.

OP, I have a pair of Avatar's oem deltalite 12's I've never got along with either. They give up a bunch of uppermids/top end in order to get that little bit of extra excursion/low end. I recently got hold of some stock spec eminence DL II 2512's and the difference is huge. The tone is back.

Basically, don't hesitate to try out some other 12 cabs. Even if they're based on the same driver/ look the same they'll sound way different/better if it's mids or upper harmonics you're missing.

Neo's are expensive now. Luckily I got mine used from a guitar player who apparently had to load them up and play them to figure out they're not guitar speakers.

craig.p · #4 10-19-2011, 02:24 PM

Option 3: Bypass the B212 crossover entirely, get an Avatar G112 to handle the mids, and get a passive crossover to divide the duty. I'm assuming your 212 cab is 8 ohms and the 12 you specify for the G112 will also be 8. You will have to mount the xover board somewhere -- in one of the two cabs or in a separate box. You'll need standoffs. Pretty straightforward job. Might be able to mount it to a blank jack plate to replace the 212's factory one, along with whatever speaker jacks you desire. One could be amp in, the other mid out (to the 112). Will depend on the size of the board vs size of the jack plate, but you can check beforehand. Wire the 112 out of phase with the 212.

nifaron1 · #5 10-19-2011, 02:39 PM

Thanks all for the good suggestions! I love the cabinet as-is (it's light and line-x), so I'll likely go with replacing one or both speakers and the crossover.

If I were to keep one of the neo speakers and replace the other for the upper-mid stuff, what speaker would everyone recommend? How about a crossover point? 100hz? Leave the Neo full range and only cut the lows from the 2nd speaker?

Thanks!
Aaron

craig.p · #6 10-19-2011, 02:45 PM

Never mind what I said about wiring the 112 out of phase (or more correctly, reverse polarity) with the 212. I just realized that crossover is mixed-slope. (Gah...) So, try both ways and see which gets you more midrange at a point equidistant from the 2 speakers. Ideally use an 800 Hz test one. If you can't generate one, use this one.

craig.p · #7 10-19-2011, 02:50 PM

Re. replacing both speakers, welcome to Hell, lol. (Well, not quite that bad.) You will have to locate drivers that will run well in that particular cab, which will mean learning to use WinISD and then modeling different drivers in the cab to make sure you get the low-end extension you want w/o nasty resonant peaks. Also, be aware that drivers with more midrange probably won't have the bass handling capacity your existing ones do.

You definitely do NOT want to mix drivers in the same cab. That's really asking for it in the billfold if you know what I mean.

Stumbo · #8 10-19-2011, 02:50 PM

Try raising your cab to ear level at the next rehearsal/gig.

Have you gone FOH to hear how your rig sits in the mix?

Maybe it's just stage placement so you can hear it better?

will33 · #9 10-19-2011, 03:00 PM

The 12's have enough going on down low you could lose the tweet and put in a crossover and 6 or 8" mid. It's always best to roll your own but emi's prebuilt 800hz. 2- way and either the la6cbmr or the alpha8mr. closedback mids would work. The 8 being the louder of the 2 mids and the closeback type making the mod easy, no need to build a subchamber inside the cab.

I also like the idea of using a guitar driver instead of the midrange, especially if you liked your bass sound with the greenbacks, (except for the lows of course).

nifaron1 · #10 10-20-2011, 08:02 AM

Thanks again all!

My gut tells me to yank the (evil) horn tweeter and drop in an Eminence Alphalite 6A-CBMR 6" Neo Sealed Back Midrange, then cross over at 800hz... which leads me to my next problem: my 12" Deltalites each 8ohms, thus they become 4ohms and need to crossover to an 8ohm mid... a little help here?

Thanks!

nifaron1 · #11 10-20-2011, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nifaron1

Thanks again all!

My gut tells me to yank the (evil) horn tweeter and drop in an Eminence Alphalite 6A-CBMR 6" Neo Sealed Back Midrange, then cross over at 800hz... which leads me to my next problem: my 12" Deltalites each 8ohms, thus they become 4ohms and need to crossover to an 8ohm mid... a little help here?

Thanks!

I've found an online xover calculator: 2-Way Crossover Designer / Calculator

Which type would work best for my application? Thanks!

billfitzmaurice · #12 10-20-2011, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nifaron1

Thanks again all!

My gut tells me to yank the (evil) horn tweeter and drop in an Eminence Alphalite 6A-CBMR 6" Neo Sealed Back Midrange, then cross over at 800hz... which leads me to my next problem: my 12" Deltalites each 8ohms, thus they become 4ohms and need to crossover to an 8ohm mid... a little help here?

Thanks!

You're on your own there, pre-made crossovers are only available in 8 ohms. You wouldn't want to crossover below 1.2kHz anyway. If you were expert in all this you wouldn't give it a second thought, but as you aren't you might find selling the cab and getting something you like the sound of the easier route.

will33 · #13 10-20-2011, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nifaron1

Thanks again all!

My gut tells me to yank the (evil) horn tweeter and drop in an Eminence Alphalite 6A-CBMR 6" Neo Sealed Back Midrange, then cross over at 800hz... which leads me to my next problem: my 12" Deltalites each 8ohms, thus they become 4ohms and need to crossover to an 8ohm mid... a little help here?

Thanks!

Sorry, may have been thinking of my own cab (two 4ohm in series) so you'd have to do a crossover yourself unless you have biamping capability. Higher freq. is better for the closedbacks, if passed too low they can get distorty when you turn up. Then there's the issue lof your 12's being in opposite corners of the cab, not as wide dispersion as a 12 would have so find a middle ground there.