Speaker recones. Do they maintain the key characteristics of the driver?

[vin*tone]

Here's one for the cab gurus...

Will a speaker recone maintain the same characteristics of an original driver? I just had a Bag End speaker in a Baby Blue 1 start to crack up. I could get it reconed locally but will it be close to original?

I know a lot of people have replaced theirs with the LDS 8" replacement but he is out of action for a few weeks. It will also be expensive to ship to Australia so I'm investigating other options.

Cheers, Vin

[Avezzano]

I am definitely NOT a guru, but IME if a proper reconing kit is used, it should not change the performance at all or in a negligible way.

[Bassoballs]

Yes it will sound like the original driver as long as the recone kit is a direct replacement.

[Avezzano]

and even if the reconing kit is not exactly like the original, it's important that it is made by the same material or a compatible one: you won't go much farther than the original.

Ater all: it will always be a piece of paper that moves some air!!!!!

[jungleheat]

It might just need a new surround. Don't those have foam surrounds that are known for deteriorating over time? Surround replacements are usually pretty cheap.

I remember my dad bought an old pair of KLH speakers at a yard sale for like $3 once because the surrounds were almost gone. Paid about $25-30 for new surrounds which he installed himself and they were very nice speakers for several years until one of the tweeters gave out.

[Mr. Foxen]

New cone won't sound the same as the old one just before it broke, because it won't be worn in.

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by jungleheat

It might just need a new surround. Don't those have foam surrounds that are known for deteriorating over time? Surround replacements are usually pretty cheap.

I remember my dad bought an old pair of KLH speakers at a yard sale for like $3 once because the surrounds were almost gone. Paid about $25-30 for new surrounds which he installed himself and they were very nice speakers for several years until one of the tweeters gave out.

Instrument speakers don't usually have a foam surround- it's usually pleated paper or cloth and has something on it to extend its life.

Tweeters "give out" mostly from clipping.

[Avezzano]

Instrument speakers don't usually have a foam surround

well, this seems not the case, then; check our friend speakers (below pic): if they are not in foam very possibly they are made of rubber or something like it.

Thus the consumption that normally does not happen on pro speakers or if it happens is really unusual, even after many years...

[will33]

As long as the recone kit is to the exact spec of the original manufacturer, it will sound the same as yours did when it was new. All new speakers need a little time to break in, warm up. They continue to break in over the course of their life.

Just beware of chinese knockoffs being passed off as the real thing. This used to happen a lot with EV's, probably still does. Verify the recone source with Bagend and you should be fine. They probably all come from china nowdays, just make sure it's a proper spec recone kit.

[Petebass]

Vin as others have said, a recone should sound the same as long as they use a genuine recone kit. However I've found the price of reccone kits in Australia to be disproportionately high. Quite often you can get a brand new replacement driver for about the same price. You might want to do a price comparison before going ahead.

[vin*tone]

Yeah it is just the rubber surround. I assumed they would need to just reinstall a new cone. Sourcing a redone kit for this specific speaker might be a bit tricky as it's a bit on the rare and boutique side of things.

I've used Speakerbits in Melbourne before. They're pretty good. I'll call and see what they can do. Thanks for the advice guys.

[Petebass]

If it's just the rubber surround, they should be able to replace that while maintaining the old cone and voice coil. That should go a long way to maintaining your sound. Do it!

[will33]

They can replace just the surround if they can find the right one. Now that you mention it, I have read about gouging on recones in Australia, over here, they run around 1/2 price new driver cost for sort of "run of the mill" drivers, far less than 1/2 for expensive ones.

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by vin*tone

Here's one for the cab gurus...

Will a speaker recone maintain the same characteristics of an original driver? I just had a Bag End speaker in a Baby Blue 1 start to crack up. I could get it reconed locally but will it be close to original?

I know a lot of people have replaced theirs with the LDS 8" replacement but he is out of action for a few weeks. It will also be expensive to ship to Australia so I'm investigating other options.

Cheers, Vin

Vin
I just sent you a PM. I found what I was looking for in the basement.

Ric

[Ric Vice]

Originally Posted by Bassoballs

Yes it will sound like the original driver as long as the recone kit is a direct replacement.

Bassoballs,
Since I owned one, here's the scoop. That way every one can benefit from this thread. The original Baby Blue I speakers were custom manufactured by Bag End. They were a pair of 16 ohm 8" drivers, built exclusively for SWR, to use in the Baby Blue cabinet, which I believe Bag End also built. SWR designed and built the heads, and then fitted them into the cabinet and speakers, that Bag End built for them. When SWR released the Baby Blue II, they moved to a pair of Celestion 8 ohm 8" drivers to give the amp a little higher power rating. Unfortunately, neither version sold very well and they changed the design for a third time and went to a single 10" driver. This all happened in a @ three year time frame. So, I seriously doubt that there are any re cone kits hanging around for those original Bag End 8" Drivers.

Ric

[MuthaFunk]

Originally Posted by Avezzano

and even if the reconing kit is not exactly like the original, it's important that it is made by the same material or a compatible one: you won't go much farther than the original.

Ater all: it will always be a piece of paper that moves some air!!!!!

I don't agree with this at all. I've had quite a few Audiophile speakers reconed and done my Golliath II twice. The second time an "equivalent" recone was used and it was never the same sound. The first time I was able to get SWR to ship me OEM parts and they were perfect new drivers when I was done.

Originally Posted by jungleheat

It might just need a new surround. Don't those have foam surrounds that are known for deteriorating over time? Surround replacements are usually pretty cheap.

I remember my dad bought an old pair of KLH speakers at a yard sale for like $3 once because the surrounds were almost gone. Paid about $25-30 for new surrounds which he installed himself and they were very nice speakers for several years until one of the tweeters gave out.

I don't know about availability in Australia but around me generic foam surrounds can be had at electronic supply stores for $1-$5. I've used them with much success. If I was in your shoes I'd try this path first!

My experience has been that the primary performance of the speaker comes from the relationship of the voice coil to magnet relationship, caption, and spider of a speaker. The surrounds are primarily there to keep the alignment of everything. Re-foams are a affordable way to keep an old driver going.

It's possible on some special speakers to have a longer throw capability from the design of the spider and magnet gap than the generic surround would allow but IMO it's worth a try, especially if stock replacements or proper recone kits aren't available. The tell tale sign of this kind of fault would be cone creasing from heavy excursion after the re-foam job.

[Avezzano]

why don't you try somethin radically different and install two of these:

FANE SOVEREIGN 8-225 - Thomann Cyberstore Italiano

they don't cost that much and it might end up in something nice anyway!!!!

Ok, ok: I just tried to give you an alternative! But being myself a risk lover I would just try it...

[JimmyM]

So I guess what we're saying is good recones done with good kits are good, and bad recones done with bad kits are bad.

[spankdaplank]

I have had a bit of experience with reconed speakers over the years.
There are companies that make "generic" recone kits for various speaker/voice coil size combinations. Waldom (not sure of the spelling) was one that I had experience with years ago. There are also "after market" recone kits that are specific to the brand and model.
In my opinion both should be avoided as they will affect the sound in a negative way. The generic kits are much cheaper but the cone material I've seen is usually made of pulp that looks like it was made by troweling it onto a cone shaped form and allowed to dry. The result is a cone that is not nearly as stiff or strong as an OEM cone.

Also, the voice coil on many high end speakers is made of flat copper "ribbon wire" on a Kapton former. Generics always use round wire, sometimes on a cardboard former.

I went through a hard education about this subject back in the day when I was playing on the road and suffered the sonic consequences of improperly reconed speakers.

Not too long ago I bought an Ampeg B15 which had a generically reconed CTS speaker. It sounded blurry, like the mushy pulp of the cone never dried. I replaced it with an EV I had on hand and instant sonic goodness.

Bottom line is that a good reconer will specify what kit they are using, but as has been stated, OEM kits can be expensive.