SpeakON to Jack? Orange Amp.

[bmovie dave]

Hi, any advice - I just got an Orange Tiny Terror Bass amp (500w) It takes SpeakON leads. I'll be running it into a cab with 1/4" Jack inputs. Any advice on brands / what is a decent SpeakON - Jack cable (that I can buy in the UK)

Thanks...

[bassgod0dmw]

Pretty much whatever they have in stock that goes Speakon to 1/4"...

I don't know what brands they carry in the UK, but you're not going to notice any super sound difference with one cable vs. another. As for technicalities, I prefer Neutrik jacks and usually a go for a thicker cable...probably around 14 gauge.

[somegeezer]

Neutrik connectors are about the standard. Just go for that. Any should do though really.

[georgestrings]

If it were me, I'd install a speakon jack on the cab, and go with a speakon to speakon cable - it's a far better system than anything involving 1/4" phone plugs, and not expensive or difficult to execute by any means...


- georgestrings

[BassmanPaul]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

If it were me, I'd install a speakon jack on the cab, and go with a speakon to speakon cable - it's a far better system than anything involving 1/4" phone plugs, and not expensive or difficult to execute by any means...


- georgestrings

Agreed! My thoughts exactly!

[bmovie dave]

Cheers people. I'm gonna go with the neutrik speakon - jack for now as I'll be upgrading the cab to something else soon... (a couple of ampeg 4x10's probably) and I cant seem to find an adaptor that turns a jack input into a speakon input!

[Sid Fang]

Originally Posted by bmovie dave

Cheers people. I'm gonna go with the neutrik speakon - jack for now as I'll be upgrading the cab to something else soon... (a couple of ampeg 4x10's probably) and I cant seem to find an adaptor that turns a jack input into a speakon input!

You can find them on Amazon.com (or Amazon.co.uk). Just put "Speakon 1/4" in your search terms. I bought one a few months ago to run my SVT fridge off my EBS HD350...

[deeptubes]

If you don't have anything in the cab to convert the upper frequencies (tweeter, horn), there is no point in using a speakon cable. When using a speakon output, a bi-amp head separates the upper and lower frequencies and sends them apart from one another. A speakon -> 1/4" just splices them together inside the cable.

If you don't have a tweeter or horn, all frequencies go to the woofers. Any frequencies that are received and cannot be translated, end up as heat in the woofer's coils. In other words, the guts of the woofers can literally melt, if your head is pushing your cab too hard for too long. Of course, you can always install a speakon jack on your cab and simply not connect the pins for the higher frequencies.

If you do have a tweeter or horn in your cab and only have a 1/4" jack, the cab has a passive crossover separating the frequencies, as opposed to a powered bi-amp doing it actively. If that's the case, I would put a speakon jack on the back of the cab and not use a speakon -> 1/4". Why separate frequencies electronically, just to re-combine them and then separate them passively? Doesn't really make sense.

Seems like the best thing to do is to put a speakon jack on your cab, no matter how it's laid out. Then again, if you're replacing the cab, you may as well use a 1/4" speaker cable. Not familiar with your head, but I would think it has both types of jack. Make sure your new cab(s) has a tweeter or a horn and a speakon jack. This doesn't make the cab sound hissy, just cleaner and much more articulate. Far too many bassists who have never played through a cab with a tweeter mistakenly think it makes the cab sound super trebly. When in reality, it just makes it sound cleaner. Hum a song, any song. Now, sing that song. There's the difference between not having a tweeter and having one. Obviously, my GK head is a bi-amp, and SWR 8x10 has a tweeter. I played though a comparable tweeter-less Ampeg rig for 9+ years before making the switch about 3 years ago. The difference is night and day. Now my rig is set for a really, really long time.

Don't know about your background knowledge. Just what I've learned in my 25 years of playing. Jam on!

[projectMalamute]

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you don't have anything in the cab to convert the upper frequencies (tweeter, horn), there is no point in using a speakon cable. When using a speakon output, the amp head separates the upper and lower frequencies and sends them apart from one another. A speakon -> 1/4" just splices them together inside the cable.

If you don't have a tweeter or horn, all frequencies go to the woofers. Any frequencies that are received and cannot be translated, end up as heat. In other words, the guts of the woofers can literally melt, if your head is pushing your cab too hard for too long. Of course, you can always install a speakon jack on your cab and simply not connect the pins for the higher frequencies.

If you do have a tweeter or horn in your cab and only have a 1/4" jack, the cab has a passive crossover separating the frequencies, as opposed to a powered bi-amp doing it actively. If that's the case, I would put a speakon jack on the back of the cab and not use a speakon -> 1/4". Why separate frequencies electronically, just to re-combine them and then separate them passively? Doesn't really make sense.

Seems like the best thing to do is to put a speakon jack on your cab, no matter how it's laid out. Then again, if you're replacing the cab, you may as well use a 1/4" speaker cable. Not familiar with your head, but I would think it has both types of jack. Make sure your new cab(s) has a tweeter or a horn and a speakon jack. This doesn't make the cab sound hissy, just cleaner and much more articulate. Far too many bassists who have never played through a cab with a tweeter mistakenly think it makes the cab sound super trebly. When in reality, it just makes it sound cleaner. Hum a song, any song. Now, sing that song. There's the difference between not having a tweeter and having one. Obviously, my GK head is a bi-amp, and SWR 8x10 has a tweeter. I played though a comparable tweeter-less Ampeg rig for 9+ years before making the switch about 3 years ago. The difference is night and day. Now my rig is set for a really, really long time.

Don't know about your background knowledge. Just what I've learned in my 25 years of playing. Jam on!

a fair amount of this is total nonsense.

[deeptubes]

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

a fair amount of this is total nonsense.

How so? Please. Enlighten me.

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you don't have anything in the cab to convert the upper frequencies (tweeter, horn), there is no point in using a speakon cable. When using a speakon output, a bi-amp head separates the upper and lower frequencies and sends them apart from one another. A speakon -> 1/4" just splices them together inside the cable.

This is fact.

Originally Posted by deeptubes

Any frequencies that are received and cannot be translated, end up as heat in the woofer's coils. In other words, the guts of the woofers can literally melt, if your head is pushing your cab too hard for too long.

This is fact.

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you do have a tweeter or horn in your cab and only have a 1/4" jack, the cab has a passive crossover separating the frequencies, as opposed to a powered bi-amp doing it actively.

This is fact.

Originally Posted by deeptubes

Seems like the best thing to do is to put a speakon jack on your cab, no matter how it's laid out. Then again, if you're replacing the cab, you may as well use a 1/4" speaker cable. Not familiar with your head, but I would think it has both types of jack. Make sure your new cab(s) has a tweeter or a horn and a speakon jack. This doesn't make the cab sound hissy, just cleaner and much more articulate. Far too many bassists who have never played through a cab with a tweeter mistakenly think it makes the cab sound super trebly. When in reality, it just makes it sound cleaner. Hum a song, any song. Now, sing that song. There's the difference between not having a tweeter and having one. Obviously, my GK head is a bi-amp, and SWR 8x10 has a tweeter. I played though a comparable tweeter-less Ampeg rig for 9+ years before making the switch about 3 years ago. The difference is night and day. Now my rig is set for a really, really long time.

Ok. This is opinion. But in general, I was trying to give a little background knowledge as to how things work. Granted, I didn't delve into the difference between 2 pole, 4 pole, and 8 pole speakons.

[bassgod0dmw]

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you don't have anything in the cab to convert the upper frequencies (tweeter, horn), there is no point in using a speakon cable. When using a speakon output, a bi-amp head separates the upper and lower frequencies and sends them apart from one another. A speakon -> 1/4" just splices them together inside the cable.

Wat

A 2 pole speakon cable has 2 wires in it. Same as any other speaker cable. There is absolutely no frequencies being separated, which that statement in itself is false. Tell me exactly how a cable knows what frequencies to send where?

If you don't have a tweeter or horn, all frequencies go to the woofers. Any frequencies that are received and cannot be translated, end up as heat in the woofer's coils. In other words, the guts of the woofers can literally melt, if your head is pushing your cab too hard for too long. Of course, you can always install a speakon jack on your cab and simply not connect the pins for the higher frequencies.

Wat

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

a fair amount of this is total nonsense.

+1. Especially to the parts that I quoted.

This is fact.

No, it isn't.

Granted, I didn't delve into the difference between 2 pole, 4 pole, and 8 pole speakons.

Based on your first post, I'd really like to hear that explanation.

[baskruit]

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

a fair amount of this is total nonsense.

+1

IMHO THE reason to change the Jack input to Speakon is purely physical: A speakon connector locks snug into place while a jack doesn't giving Murphy an opportunity to rear its ugly head.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by baskruit

+1

IMHO THE reason to change the Jack input to Speakon is purely physical: A speakon connector locks snug into place while a jack doesn't giving Murphy an opportunity to rear its ugly head.

The locking aspect of the speakon is actually just a bonus - the REAL reason to change over to them is that the speakon system is designed to handle the higher wattages that today's amps routinely deliver, and is also a "touch-proof" system...


- georgestrings

[carlos840]

Here is where i got mine, its in the UK, Dav is a really nice guy and will make any cable any length you need and the prices are good!

bassic bits


PS: you might want to buy an attenuator for your DI out, it is at line level and will overdrive most desks around!

This is the one i use, it works great, you might be able to find cheaper ones (studiospares etc) but this one is really good quality, Neutrick connectors etc

http://www.canford.co.uk/Products/20...-40dB-600-ohms

[baskruit]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

The locking aspect of the speakon is actually just a bonus - the REAL reason to change over to them is that the speakon system is designed to handle the higher wattages that today's amps routinely deliver, and is also a "touch-proof" system...


- georgestrings

Good point.

I've been wondering about this Jack->Speakon issue as well by the way. I have an LMII and two Aguilar GS112's and all three have only one Speakon connector and one or two jacks. While I think my woodworking skills are fine, add a Speakon connector in one of the cabs myself and then daisy chain them, I kind of fear for the resale value if I do. While it would be better than stock, it won't be stock anymore.

[Jools4001]

In the UK you will find that Maplin do Speakon to Jack cables so that would get you up and running without further ado. Ther's also a pretty fair chance that there is a Maplin store fairly close to you.

However, I would also back those people who say that you would be better off converting your cab to Speakon as well, and use a Speakon to Speakon connector. The advantages are:

1) The Speakons lock into place with a simple twist
2) Speakons are specifically designed as speaker connectors and to cope with the higher power output of modern amps -Jacks were designed 60+ years ago for telephone exchanges
3) All jacks will momentarily short out as they are inserted or pulled out - Speakons can't short out
4) with Speakons, you won't be exposed in any way to any output voltages from the amp - with Jacks the barrel may be live
5) Speakons are breathtakingly easy to wire up

The guy that was talking about bi-amping wasn't totally wrong. There are two types of Speakon - Two Pole and Four Pole, which as the name implies means that they either have two contacts (which will be labelled +1/-1) or four contacts which will be labeled (+1/-1 and +2/-2). The four pole connectors are often used in PA applications along with four core cable to carry the output from a power amp that has it's output connectors configured in bi-amp mode. So one pair of core wires will carry the low frequency output and the other pair will carry the high frequency output.

For bass rigs, if you were using a separate pre-amp/poweramp combination and you wanted to run a two channel power amp in bridged mode, you would want to use a four pole connector at the amp end with a two core cable wired +1/+2 at the amp end and +1/-1 at the cab end.

For a staight forward two-pole to two- pole connector, just wire it up with the same colour conductor wired to the + terminal at each end.

The terminals are just screw terminals, no soldering at all, so even easier than soldering a jack plug

[BassmanPaul]

It's a better idea to use the 4 pole speakon connectors for compatibility as these have become a de facto standard. A two pole plug will fit into a four pole socket but the reverse will not.

[Rockman]

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you don't have anything in the cab to convert the upper frequencies (tweeter, horn), there is no point in using a speakon cable. When using a speakon output, a bi-amp head separates the upper and lower frequencies and sends them apart from one another. A speakon -> 1/4" just splices them together inside the cable.

This is only if you are using one of the VERY FEW amps that have seperate amps for lows and the tweeter. MOST speakon connectors are 2 conductor and not four so the function exactly the same as a normal1/4 inch cable.

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you don't have a tweeter or horn, all frequencies go to the woofers. Any frequencies that are received and cannot be translated, end up as heat in the woofer's coils. In other words, the guts of the woofers can literally melt, if your head is pushing your cab too hard for too long. Of course, you can always install a speakon jack on your cab and simply not connect the pins for the higher frequencies.

While a speaker voice coil will melt if you push them too hard for too long it isn't because frequencies aren't "being used". Heat is generated because speakers like 99% of devices are not 100% efficient, that is not all electrical energy is converted to sound, some is converted to heat. You put more electrical energy in more sound energy and heat comes out. Voice coils are designed to withstand a certain amount of heat, then they will melt. If anything higher frequencies will be able to be reproduced much much louder and more efficiently than bass frequencies due to the smaller excursion needed per dBl.

Originally Posted by deeptubes

If you do have a tweeter or horn in your cab and only have a 1/4" jack, the cab has a passive crossover separating the frequencies, as opposed to a powered bi-amp doing it actively. If that's the case, I would put a speakon jack on the back of the cab and not use a speakon -> 1/4". Why separate frequencies electronically, just to re-combine them and then separate them passively? Doesn't really make sense.

If you are using a 4 conductor speakon cable from a biamp capable amp into a 2 conductor jack then you will simply not be using the highs. The crossover on biamp capable cabs are not in effect when a 4 conductor cable is used, because as you said that would be nonsensical.

You don't seem to understand the points of a speakon cable, which mainly is that they can lock into the jack so they won't be pulled out, and that they can be set up to be used with a bi-amp rig.

You compared a sealed ampeg 8x10 to a SWR, ampeg is known for old school tones, SWR for HiFiish sound with lots of tweeter. These have absolutely nothing to do with the cable.

To recap

Doesn't matter, just get a 2 conductor speakong to 1/4 inch cable and use it. I've done that for years with a GK1001 into an older Epifani T310 with no speakon input

[PurpleDrank]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

The locking aspect of the speakon is actually just a bonus - the REAL reason to change over to them is that the speakon system is designed to handle the higher wattages that today's amps routinely deliver, and is also a "touch-proof" system...


- georgestrings

Big +1