Speakon to XLR help.

[MrHaezelnut]

Hi there everyone!

My first post... glad to be here.

So, I'm looking to buy a GK Mb-200, and first I want to ask if pairing it with a Carvin 4x10 8 ohm cab is a good idea.

Secondly, the GK has a Speakon out.... And the Carvin cab has an XLR in. See where this is going? Is there a cord made for that? Would it be practical to use that, or is a quarter inch okay? Trying to maximize the abilities of my soon-to-be setup.

Any input is awesome!

Thanks.

[praisegig]

Are you sure that the cabinet has a XLR in? Most cabinets are wired for Speakon and/or 1/4" inputs. Never seen one with XLR input, but I may proven wrong. The head has an XLR direct out for going to a PA system and a Speakon for going to a cabinet.

[Stinsok]

XLR in on a non-powered cabinet?

[greenboy]

Used to be used on enclosures from quite a few companies. And it was a bad idea. My personal recommendation is to get rid of the XLR and install a Speakon on the cab.

[walterw]

agreed.

a speakon-to-XLR cable is just an accident waiting to happen. ("what? you said plug the output into the speakers! what do you mean, 'those are powered speakers'? damn, that's a lot of smoke!")

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by greenboy

Used to be used on enclosures from quite a few companies. And it was a bad idea. My personal recommendation is to get rid of the XLR and install a Speakon on the cab.

+1.

[MrHaezelnut]

Okay, that sounds do-able. anyone link me or show me a tutorial of how to re-wire and XLR to a Speakon? Is it three or four leads?

[fdeck]

I am guessing that only pins 2 and 3 of the XLR are used, and that pin 2 is Plus. That would be consistent with how XLR's are hooked up for microphones. On the Speakon jack, the terminals are marked 1+, 1-, etc. The most common speaker hookup, e.g., what works with my MB200 is to use 1+ and 1-.

I once got hired to sub for a band that had its own PA. They had built their own amp rack, and had configured their rack and speakers to use regular extension cords for speaker cables. I commented on the wisdom of that idea and was given the brush-off, as I was obviously just a kid.

[Eight_Stringer]

Back in the 70's FOH and Foldback ( often refered to as "Feedback" ) all we had was Cannon "XLR's", coming from the base of previous 1/4" jacks. At 10KW Audio and up 1/4" was not ideal, grin. The contact rating of many XLR's was 15Amps, which by the way does not translate to ideal for small signal carrying ( ie Microphone use ). Most back line was still on 1/4" so no risk of plugging any mics into that arrangement, unless some dill brought along mics with 1/4" connections/cable assemblies. FOH was done by qualified and trained staff. Never in 10 years did i see a "mic plugged into a power amp" or speaker or any permutation of same. Had departed the sound reinforcement before "Speakons" were common.

XLR's are not to my mind a bad idea, they actually supported all large gig setups that many call "the good old days", robust construction, conservative contact rating, lockable and low cost of the era. We could always make on the fly repairs, with one type of spare connector....the XLR... Now if you state bad ideas we could talk about the lamentable Phase Linear 700B in FOH..... thank goodness for Crown 300A's ( transformer coupled ) DC -100Khz... rule flat.... and unburstable. Just a comment in praise of XLR, whomever designed it.. well done.

** The industry connection of speaker XLR is to short the top two pins ( Ovolts or reference or return ...or the awful termed "ground" ) with the third pin underneath the "hot" signal current.

Regards to all.

[MrHaezelnut]

Okay... Forgive me but, I'm only 15 so I have no idea what half of you said meant....
Heheheh. :P
Anyway. I think I'd be willing to retrofit the Speakon input from the XLR, but only really if it's going to be a difference from just 1/4" to 1/4" input, or Speakon to 1/4". What is the difference from the two, anyway? I guessed I just assumed Speakon is 'better'.

[Eight_Stringer]

Originally Posted by MrHaezelnut

Okay... Forgive me but, I'm only 15 so I have no idea what half of you said meant....
Heheheh. :P
Anyway. I think I'd be willing to retrofit the Speakon input from the XLR, but only really if it's going to be a difference from just 1/4" to 1/4" input, or Speakon to 1/4". What is the difference from the two, anyway? I guessed I just assumed Speakon is 'better'.

Your well in front of me at 15 you say, did not play bass until 21. Compliments to you, write well and ask questions in a matter of fact way. Coming to an age when you decide for yourself what is useful. Many will the opinions on TB, from very useful to useless. To utilize a different connection system on your bass rig, dependent on quality connection(s) you can purchase these days. Times past, quality was for the most part was consistently good. Today it is consistently highly variable. Proper Neutrik speakON will be a known quality item, you will not have gig time issues if looked after.

New 1/4" connectors are available from reputable suppliers in usable quality. Worked for many artists as speaker connectors in the 60's.... A side issue....amazes me the frowned on old connectors, yet many here find the old "divine light" fender P/J Bass required all "original" components...including capacitors, pots and connectors... for authentic sound... some one is having a laugh.... 40-50 year old connector on bass feeds audio chain to speaker cone, any suspect item in this chain will let down any quality components installed or modernised.

Me, have a couple of TL606's with XLR, which will remain installed. Have a couple of fEarfuls 15/6/HF near completed, purchased some SpeakONs to install, may as well cheap enough in the USA ( unlike Australia ). Make some adaptor leads as required, the bass amp is 200W valve/tube with XLR and they will remain as i am comfortable with 30+ years use to date.

Please yourself young man ( hope i have the gender correct? ), time has arrived to canvass opinions ( which you have, well done you ). Then decide for yourself, what will be your rig and how you operate it. That must have some real excitement for you.... no one telling you what to do!

*** Sure there are many topics that cover adaptor cables on TB...search and search some more... your learning all the time, a great thing.

Regards.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by Eight_Stringer

Back in the 70's FOH and Foldback ( often refered to as "Feedback" ) all we had was Cannon "XLR's", coming from the base of previous 1/4" jacks. At 10KW Audio and up 1/4" was not ideal, grin. The contact rating of many XLR's was 15Amps, which by the way does not translate to ideal for small signal carrying ( ie Microphone use ). Most back line was still on 1/4" so no risk of plugging any mics into that arrangement, unless some dill brought along mics with 1/4" connections/cable assemblies. FOH was done by qualified and trained staff. Never in 10 years did i see a "mic plugged into a power amp" or speaker or any permutation of same. Had departed the sound reinforcement before "Speakons" were common.

XLR's are not to my mind a bad idea, they actually supported all large gig setups that many call "the good old days", robust construction, conservative contact rating, lockable and low cost of the era. We could always make on the fly repairs, with one type of spare connector....the XLR... Now if you state bad ideas we could talk about the lamentable Phase Linear 700B in FOH..... thank goodness for Crown 300A's ( transformer coupled ) DC -100Khz... rule flat.... and unburstable. Just a comment in praise of XLR, whomever designed it.. well done.

** The industry connection of speaker XLR is to short the top two pins ( Ovolts or reference or return ...or the awful termed "ground" ) with the third pin underneath the "hot" signal current.

Regards to all.

We used twist-locks ( normally used for AC power)

[Eight_Stringer]

Can imagine what you mean B-string. Did not want to introduce some of the flat out dangerous systems have seen myself. Shhhhhh... the young folk dont know how dangerous old folk were when young, big grin! Regards.

[B-string]

Originally Posted by Eight_Stringer

Can imagine what you mean B-string. Did not want to introduce some of the flat out dangerous systems have seen myself. Shhhhhh... the young folk dont know how dangerous old folk were when young, big grin! Regards.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Even though I still have vintage cabs with XLR connectors and still use 'em, yet another vote for replacing the XLR with a Speakon.

OTOH, if You buy or make an adaptor or an adaptor cable, and you carry that with you, no-one can "borrow" your rig.

Originally Posted by greenboy

Used to be used on enclosures from quite a few companies. And it was a bad idea.

Originally Posted by billfitzmaurice

+1.

Originally Posted by walterw

agreed.

a speakon-to-XLR cable is just an accident waiting to happen. ("what? you said plug the output into the speakers! what do you mean, 'those are powered speakers'? damn, that's a lot of smoke!")

???

Worse than 1/4", worse than binding posts, worse than banana jacks, worse than AC cords?

I do agree that XLR (and XXLR or whatever that huge XLR is called) is pretty much obsolete nowadays, but still better alternative than the above. IME anyway.

AFAIK You guys are (much) older than I am, and I'm no spring chicken either, so you've experienced first hand the 1/4" limitations on high power amplification.
In that regard I do find Your comments a bit perplexing.

Originally Posted by Eight_Stringer

XLR's are not to my mind a bad idea, they actually supported all large gig setups that many call "the good old days", robust construction, conservative contact rating, lockable and low cost of the era. We could always make on the fly repairs, with one type of spare connector....the XLR...
Regards to all.

I agree, they were the logical choice at the time, before Speakon. Perhaps today as well, over the 1/4" anyway.

Since IME the genders are reversed on input and output when using XLR, unless one has a @@@ cord, no chance of a mistake.

Regards
Sam

[B-string]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

AFAIK You guys are (much) older than I am, and I'm no spring chicken either, so you've experienced first hand the 1/4" limitations on high power amplification.
In that regard I do find Your comments a bit perplexing.
Regards
Sam

How so? No one said that 1/4" are the answer? Quite the contrary, thats why we used stuff that was an accident waiting to happen (like twist-locks).

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by B-string

How so? No one said that 1/4" are the answer? Quite the contrary

Nope, no one needed to say that, agreeing that the better, improved connector was a bad idea over the previous "industry standard" kinda gives it out. To me anyway.

Regards
Sam

[wcriley]

Ahhh, the memories this thread brings back.

In the early 80s I worked in a band that used PA speakers with XLR connectors. Two major problems, as I remember them, were:
1. Soldering heavy speaker wire onto the connectors was such a be-atch that anytime one went bad it stayed in the junk box until we were down to our last spare.
2. Even though I kept the mic and speaker cables color-coded and segregated in seperate boxes, at least once a month someone would put a speaker cable on a mic...causing a frantic search for the noise source.

[BassmanPaul]

if the XLR on the cabinet is a female (like those on mixer inputs) a speakon socket is a drop in fit.

If it's a male (ala what plugs into a microphone) the connector is mounted into a 5/8" diameter hole. That needs to be widened to 15/16" for a speakon. Two 1/8" holes need to be drilled to accommodate the mounting bolts - I use pop rivets for this.

Wire the positive from the speakers to +1 and the negative to -1 and you are done. If you are not confident in your ability to perform this task take the cabinet to a tech. Shouldn't cost too much to have done.

[Eight_Stringer]

Few idea's have come to mind on the "adaptor" or versatile options for amplifier to speaker cabinet connection. Small metal ( plastic if you must ) box with speakON, XLR, 1/4" mounted and wired correctly across the 3 types. This will now be a "transition" point between amp and cabinet. Maybe it has been done before, not seen a specific amp to cabinet version myself. Have so many cables i will do the above. Losses will be minimal. You could even wire in a led and resistor to indicate signal present on the transition box. Just a thought.

Means having two cables to establish the amplifier to cabinet(s) connection, however the cables would be standard like end to end, ie speakOn to speakOn, or XLR to XLR ( male or "Mr" as i call them..male is to overt! ) is standard on speaker cabinets times past.

Melting of the plastic pin holder in XLR while soldering was common for the new to task people. Mate the XLR to be soldered with its opposite connector to assist in local pin heating reduction, pre tin if possible the incoming wire, use a fairly high soldering iron temperature and quickly solder the wire to pin solder bucket. Forget modern lead free solders for this task, eutectic point is hopeless on lead free solders, with normal soldering irons.

Original Poster, you could if an old cabinet, install all 3 types of connectors on the cabinet, to allow any connection from any amp output type, or just an extra speakON with the original Mr XLR, hope i make sense. Need to be careful of using more than one cable at amp or cabinet end ie parallel circuits.

Regards.