On Stage Cab Placement

[mam1862]

I had the guys in my band ask me to do this and it never really has crossed my mind so I thought I would ask the question on TB. With two matching cabs, are you better off stacking them on top of each other or is it ok to place them in the same place on opposite sides of the stage (One on each side of the drums as an example)? Which way and why?

[Bass_Pounder]

Stacked !

NOT side by side, and definitely NOT seperated.

[Oreomeister365]

Aiming at your ears.

So probably stacked.

[Lazarus.Bird]

Putting them on opposite sides of the drums is a good recipe for phase cancellation. Vertical stack is always best.

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by mam1862

I had the guys in my band ask me to do this and it never really has crossed my mind so I thought I would ask the question on TB. With two matching cabs, are you better off stacking them on top of each other or is it ok to place them in the same place on opposite sides of the stage (One on each side of the drums as an example)? Which way and why?

There are no rules. Put them wherever you like - or where everyone likes - even under the drum riser if that‘s what everyone wants - there are no rules - just put them wherever you and your band mates like. And experiment - stage amp and monitor placement will greatly affect your hearing so in return it could make or break your performance. Personally I like my bass amps behind me (not on each side of the drums).

[jeff7bass]

I’ve actually aimed a second cab sideways in the past so the guitar player and drummer could hear me better but we didn’t have good monitor support in that case. Didn’t cause a problem for me because my main combo (a GK which I usually stacked on the second cab) was a tilt-back combo with plenty of power. Obviously this would reduce phase cancellation because the second cab was pointing to my left instead of straight out.
Situations are different. In most cases I never used more than half of what the rig was capable of because soundmen don’t like huge stage volume.

[tbirddad]

There's theory and there is real life.
Experiment to find what sounds better and works better for you.
Stacked is theoretically correct - and the best way, but I have had excellent results side by side and also on both sides of the drums.
Sometimes, well, probably most times, it depends on the room. Low ceiling, high ceiling, type of material used on the floor and walls - etc.
Experiment and have fun!

[silky smoove]

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

There are no rules.

There most certainly are rules. The rules are called "physics". Whether you choose to use them to your advantage or not is a different story.

[BurningSkies]

It depends on what your goals are. If you need to project into the house, then stacked is what you want. If you want to use a cab as a drum monitor and you're not loud enough to effect what's going on in the house, then by all means turn a cab...I personally stay with stacked and use a cab that's got good dispersion. If I can have my rig at or behind the drummer's position it helps him hear my amp when its facing forward.

[mam1862]

I appreciate all of the feedback. Sounds like you can't go wrong with just stacking them vertically. Thanks.

[Joe Louvar]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

There most certainly are rules. The rules are called "physics". Whether you choose to use them to your advantage or not is a different story.

lol - sometimes I just go direct and use in-ear-monitors too. I'd like to see your rules - and I’m sure others here would too - please post your stage sound formula rules here. Thanks.

[rockstarbassist]

Yeah if you separate them, the amp and cabs usually become self-aware a la` SKYNet like in the Terminator movies and basically shut off.

I mean, I've never seen or heard it happen but I read it on TB so I mean it has to be true.

[BurningSkies]

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

lol - sometimes I just go direct and use in-ear-monitors too. I'd like to see your rules - and I’m sure others here would too - please post your stage sound formula rules here. Thanks.

Issues in comb filtering an phase problems are well documented in acoustics, especially in the lower frequency range if you're using multiple low frequency sources with any horizontal separation.

[will33]

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

lol - sometimes I just go direct and use in-ear-monitors too. I'd like to see your rules - and I’m sure others here would too - please post your stage sound formula rules here. Thanks.

Search boundry cancellation, phase cancellation, room modes, dispersion and comb filtering......then read.

Depending on who needs to hear what, what PA support there is, etc., I'll either stack them both pointed at center audience, top one pointed forward and bottom sideways facing the drummer, or currently with pa and myself mixing from stage, I'll place the rig side stage with the whole thing facing sideways playing to the band, the PA takes care of FOH, but always stacked, never separated.

[rockstarbassist]

The only way to be sure is to get this:

http://klopsdrums.com/

Then you can use them on either side. Eliminates all phazings- real and imaginary.

[Joe Louvar]

Ok now I see what you guys are referring to. The point is - every stage Ryder is NOT always the same and bands setup however they like and there are no rules other than the band being happy with the stage mix. Get your stage mix first then the house.

[billfitzmaurice]

Originally Posted by mam1862

I had the guys in my band ask me to do this and it never really has crossed my mind so I thought I would ask the question on TB. With two matching cabs, are you better off stacking them on top of each other or is it ok to place them in the same place on opposite sides of the stage (One on each side of the drums as an example)? Which way and why?

Never side by side, this is why:
Art of Assembly Language Programming and HLA by Randall Hyde

Never split, this is why:
Live Sound: The “Power Alley” - Discussion & Solutions To The Troubling Interaction Of Subwoofer Stacks - Pro Sound Web

And if your band has subs never split them either, for the same reason.

[runmikeyrun]

I got the same advice here a while back about separating cabs. I have (2) 412s. I stacked them and for the first time, well, ever, I had speakers at my ear level. I actually heard my bass! Even when I went off axis and wasn't standing right in front of the cabs I could still hear it. I wasn't even running that much power but because the top cab was at head height I had NO problems hearing myself. For years I played with an 810 and 215 and still couldn't hear myself even running @ 1000w. I was running at about 350w with the full stack and heard everything clear as day. Even though the top cab was technically beaming sound over the crowd's head (we were on a stage) the bottom cab took care of what they heard.

For anyone who can't hear their bass on stage I suggest biting the bullet and configuring your cabs so they are at head height. You won't be disappointed.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by silky smoove

There most certainly are rules. The rules are called "physics". Whether you choose to use them to your advantage or not is a different story.

+1...


- georgestrings

[Blankandson]

No one here knows what the conditions are where you are playing, and you probably don't know where you'll be playing next month. So anything anyone writes will change every week (except the Physics - those are real). IF your soundman (or someone else who goes where your band goes ) plays bass, have that person play your equipment on a song, and you need to walk all around the room. That way YOU will have a much better idea of what everyone here is talking about. A review of a Stones tour many years ago in Recording Engineer/Producer magazine documented huge phase cancellation of the bass all across the lower 'standing room' area, but said the bass sounded great in the upper reaches of the arena. It happens to the best of us.