Stereo fEARful setup?

[zaubertuba]

This really is a "nEARful" application, so I didn't want to muddy the fEARful threads with it...

I've been thinking of "going stereo" with my ERB setup.

I really like the deep-reaching, even response of my fEarful 12/6/1, but the predominantly favored tone I use in our fusion trio is a very wide-chorused "Metheny-esque" sound that really only gets used from A1 on up (lower than that it just gets muddy). I've also noticed sometimes when I'm tapping comping parts on the high side of the instrument, I have a harder time hearing the high notes I'm playing-even with the cabinet tipped up. Most of our gigs thus far have involved pretty tight quarters so I think I can count on ending up pretty close to my cabinet more often than not.

I'm wondering if it might work to use a fEARful 12-sub in mono, with two fEARful headcase-style enclosures (with Alpha 6A's and compression drivers) on stands at ear level, in stereo. The required volume for the 6A's is so small that I could make the stereo cabinets really nice and compact--a very "roadable" stereo setup. Bass down low and floor-coupled where I can feel it. Mids and highs up at ear level where I can hear them--and get a good stereo effect.

Of course this would be with active crossovers. For effects, right now I'm using a Line 6 X3L, but am thinking of "simplifying" my processing to just a Lexicon multi-channel delay unit and a decent overdrive pedal.

I'm not sure though, that the 6A's go low enough to be useful in that midbass range between A1 and G2.

First of all, would the blend between a single fEARful sub and the two stereo speakers be effective, with them separated as such?

Barring that, would I be better off using a lower crossover point with slightly larger (say 8") drivers in the stereo speakers?

[zaubertuba]

Nudge, Nudge.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by zaubertuba

Nudge, Nudge.

I love stereo rigs. Naysayers are just not doing it right, IMO and IME.

My last one used a 15/6/1 on one side and a 12" co-ax cab on the other. Just cut lows out of the small cab, at 100-300 Hz depending on spacing. I use ping-pong delay a lot, and the range from 250-600 adds a lot in that scenario. So I would still want something that gracefully goes lower than an Alpha 6, personally. A digital speaker management system is a great tool for dialing this stuff in.

[zaubertuba]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

I love stereo rigs. Naysayers are just not doing it right, IMO and IME.

My last one used a 15/6/1 on one side and a 12" co-ax cab on the other. Just cut lows out of the small cab, at 100-300 Hz depending on spacing. I use ping-pong delay a lot, and the range from 250-600 adds a lot in that scenario. So I would still want something that gracefully goes lower than an Alpha 6, personally. A digital speaker management system is a great tool for dialing this stuff in.

So, I could just use the 12/6/1 as the "main" cabinet, then start by mocking up a small cab with something like a Beta 8A? I never thought about running two dissimilar cabs in stereo.

I need to model some boxes to find out, but at first blush it looks like I might get the 8A down to 100-150Hz.

...if I liked it I suppose I could do a second Beta cab and run W-M-W.

What would you recommend for speaker management? Looks like I'd need 2-in 5-out for adding a two-way, or 3-in, 7 out adding two extension cabs. Looks like the BBE DS-48 might handle it.

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by zaubertuba

So, I could just use the 12/6/1 as the "main" cabinet, then start by mocking up a small cab with something like a Beta 8A? I never thought about running two dissimilar cabs in stereo.

I need to model some boxes to find out, but at first blush it looks like I might get the 8A down to 100-150Hz.

...if I liked it I suppose I could do a second Beta cab and run W-M-W.

What would you recommend for speaker management? Looks like I'd need 2-in 5-out for adding a two-way, or 3-in, 7 out adding two extension cabs. Looks like the BBE DS-48 might handle it.

Consider using passive crossovers in one or two places to minimize your needs in the DSP department. I'd try for 2 in 4 out, personally.

I'm currently prototyping a DIY management system using this. The BBE ones are re-branded Digisynthetic pieces, and have excellent signal/noise specs, which is a major failing in many others IME. I have yet to try one myself though.

Dissimilar cabs can be really cool, opening up using one for dedicated distortion (no tweeter or a just whizzer works well) for one thing.

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by zaubertuba

This really is a "nEARful" application, so I didn't want to muddy the fEARful threads with it...

I've been thinking of "going stereo" with my ERB setup.

I really like the deep-reaching, even response of my fEarful 12/6/1, but the predominantly favored tone I use in our fusion trio is a very wide-chorused "Metheny-esque" sound that really only gets used from A1 on up (lower than that it just gets muddy). I've also noticed sometimes when I'm tapping comping parts on the high side of the instrument, I have a harder time hearing the high notes I'm playing-even with the cabinet tipped up. Most of our gigs thus far have involved pretty tight quarters so I think I can count on ending up pretty close to my cabinet more often than not.

I'm wondering if it might work to use a fEARful 12-sub in mono, with two fEARful headcase-style enclosures (with Alpha 6A's and compression drivers) on stands at ear level, in stereo. The required volume for the 6A's is so small that I could make the stereo cabinets really nice and compact--a very "roadable" stereo setup. Bass down low and floor-coupled where I can feel it. Mids and highs up at ear level where I can hear them--and get a good stereo effect.

Of course this would be with active crossovers. For effects, right now I'm using a Line 6 X3L, but am thinking of "simplifying" my processing to just a Lexicon multi-channel delay unit and a decent overdrive pedal.

I'm not sure though, that the 6A's go low enough to be useful in that midbass range between A1 and G2.

First of all, would the blend between a single fEARful sub and the two stereo speakers be effective, with them separated as such?

Barring that, would I be better off using a lower crossover point with slightly larger (say 8") drivers in the stereo speakers?

Originally Posted by Passinwind

I love stereo rigs. Naysayers are just not doing it right, IMO and IME.

My last one used a 15/6/1 on one side and a 12" co-ax cab on the other. Just cut lows out of the small cab, at 100-300 Hz depending on spacing. I use ping-pong delay a lot, and the range from 250-600 adds a lot in that scenario. So I would still want something that gracefully goes lower than an Alpha 6, personally. A digital speaker management system is a great tool for dialing this stuff in.

when you get a GREAT signal processor, which doesn't have to cost a lot of dough, stereo bass can be amazing. Fretless with some nice Lexicon/tc electronic reverb in stereo is amazing.

Cheers,
Cameron

[seamonkey]

I like your idea of sub and satellites. And maybe it's not "perfect" stereo due to the crossover point, but it could be quite effective.

I've gone stereo at times and it's amazing.
But only for small venues. It's getting a good placement for most members of the audience that difficult.

I heard Groove Tubes sold out to Fender so the founder could focus on creating the "Spacestations" for pro use. I've heard these have like 300 degrees of effective stereo field.

[zaubertuba]

Originally Posted by Passinwind

Consider using passive crossovers in one or two places to minimize your needs in the DSP department. I'd try for 2 in 4 out, personally.

Yeah, managing crossover points for *7* drivers does seem like it would get a little unwieldy. I've been really wanting to try triamping my 12/6/1, though, so maybe I'll see if I can come up with a really nice passive x-over for the satellite(s).

I'm currently prototyping a DIY management system using this. The BBE ones are re-branded Digisynthetic pieces, and have excellent signal/noise specs, which is a major failing in many others IME. I have yet to try one myself though.

Darnitall, PW! You keep adding to my "list of desirable projects to build!"

Incidentally, what kind of voltage does that module take?

Dissimilar cabs can be really cool, opening up using one for dedicated distortion (no tweeter or a just whizzer works well) for one thing.

Definitely worth playing with.

Originally Posted by Bassflute

when you get a GREAT signal processor, which doesn't have to cost a lot of dough, stereo bass can be amazing. Fretless with some nice Lexicon/tc electronic reverb in stereo is amazing.

Cheers,
Cameron

Yeah, I believe Pat uses a sweeping delay with separate settings in the L and R cabinets. The effect is like a Chorus--but there's no actual "chorus" effects unit involved. Lexicon is an icon in the industry, and they have some very functional units that aren't too pricey.

Now, getting a hold of a half-fretless NS/Stick, well, that's going to take some time.

Originally Posted by seamonkey

I like your idea of sub and satellites. And maybe it's not "perfect" stereo due to the crossover point, but it could be quite effective.

I've gone stereo at times and it's amazing.
But only for small venues. It's getting a good placement for most members of the audience that difficult.

I heard Groove Tubes sold out to Fender so the founder could focus on creating the "Spacestations" for pro use. I've heard these have like 300 degrees of effective stereo field.

Indeed it's definitely more for my specific instrument than for PA, so it really doesn't need to necessarily play by "good PA design rules," per se. I do think I need to make sure the cabinets are voiced well individually and that I have enough flexibility to make sure they blend well.

We don't play massive venues...I'm kind of thinking of trying to get my bandmates to go with a discrete reinforcement for each--along the lines of what Pat Metheny is doing with his current tour--only we wouldn't need 12 L1's to do it.