Streamliner 900, Tone Hammer 500, F1 mini shootout

[rodneyat]

I definitely need to call this a "mini" shootout as I have not spent a ton of time with all of these amps. But, enough to at least write down some first impressions. The cab I was using for all three of these amps was a Berg AE212 and the basses were a Nordy VJ5, Roscoe LG3005 (OBP-3 Pre) and Regenerate Guitar Works Axiom 5 (Nordy pickups and pre). So, let's start by saying that I have owned the Markbass F1 for a couple of years and it has been my overall mainstay amp for a while. Many other amps have come and gone. But the F1 has remained. Additionally, I had been following all the threads regarding the Streamliner amps for a while. But, I have never been a super big fan of the tube sound. So, I had not put a lot of weight behind the hype. Then, as far as the Tone Hammer 500 goes. There has not been a piece of gear I have had GAS for more than this thing. I have always loved my Tone Hammer pedal and the thought of it in a full blown amp. I was ready to go! I pre-ordered one really early and waited with anticipation. So, a few weeks ago we had a get together with some TBers here in GA. Greg from Rocket Music brought a Streamliner 900 with him. We ended up connecting it to my AE212 and the rest is history. I was blown away by how it sounded and ended up buying it. My TH500 arrived last Friday and yesterday. I had a chance to do a little mini shootout. Here is a crappy cell phone pic I took because I was too lazy to get my camera out.


On to the good stuff.
Chassis, construction, size, weight, etc: The F1 is still overall the champion in the size category. That thing is so small. The TH500 definitely wins for weight at 3.8lbs. Amazing for a 500 watt amp. But, I do have to say. While the SL900 was the largest and heaviest of the 3 (and the most powerful). The build quality is probably overall better than any of the lightweight amps I have ever seen. Definitely better than any of the other GB stuff I have seen and/or owned.

Features: Again, the SL900 is a front runner here. 6 stage tube preamp, selectable mids, separate gain stage, aux in, headphone out etc. It has it all. The TH500 is not far behind. My biggest beef, no headphone out or aux in. I have always found this useful on the GB gear.

Sound: Obviously, this is where the rubber hits the road. I was actually very surprised that, to my ears, the F1 and the TH500 are definitely in the same overall tonal range. Obviously, they each of their own character but do sound "somewhat" alike. The TH500 is definitely more punchy (I know, i hate that word too). And the drive knob is genius. My biggest complaint with the TH pedal was the AGS circuit. It was on or off..no middle ground. The drive knob allows you to dial in just the desired amount of the overdriven tone. The TH500 definitely has a considerably more overhead, as well. I can get the F1 to give out before the AE212 cabinet does. For the TH500, the cab peaks out before the amp. Obviously, the same goes for the SL900 given it has more power. But, that said, to my ears. It is not as much more volume as you would expect. But, in reality, the difference in 500 watts and 900 watts is not huge when you are talking bass amps. The SL900 definitely has more overhead and definitely more extension on the low end. I actually find myself cutting the bass slightly with the SL900/AE212 combination whereas keeping it flat with the TH500 and/or F1. So, on to the SL900. It has tone for DAYS. I still cannot say enough about this amp. I have been blown away. In the past, I have always found GB amps to be somewhat brittle and untamed on the high end. That is not the case with the SL900. It is bright but still smooth up top. And the low end is very present but not too much. Or at least it is easily controlled. For me, the SL900 will be my mainstay amp for a while. GB definitely came out with a keeper on this one!

This was short and sweet but I thought it may be helpful, to some.

[12bass]

Nice comparison.

In particular, I've been curious about the Streamliner 900 versus the Tone Hammer 500, as both use the same ICEpower modules. What's interesting is that GB is "pushing" them for more power, while Aguilar appears to be more conservative in their design. Would love to know more about how the power on these two compares in the real world.

[KJung]

Nice. I've never been a big fan of the Aguilar tone (a bit too mushy and wooly for me), but the Tonehammer sounds like I'd dig it (if I didn't already have an F500).

And per the above, the power management is everything in these designs. TC and Genz really have done a great job with that... very musical limiting that allows the amps to get quite loud, and put out more ooomph than the power modules would suggest.

I like TC's approach of listing the 'true' power, and then surprising the customer with overperformance versus expectation versus the Genz approach to list the maximum wattage at full blown output with the limiting and power management. I guess that is good marketing (i.e., 900 watts!), but alway struck me as a little bit of smoke and mirrors.

That being said, the Streamliner 900 WUMPS

[jnewmark]

Just curious here, as you have used the TH pedal, how does it's eq section compare to the TH head, with the exception of the AGS switch being on or off ? I always wanted to try that pedal with a power amp.

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by 12bass

Nice comparison.

In particular, I've been curious about the Streamliner 900 versus the Tone Hammer 500, as both use the same ICEpower modules. What's interesting is that GB is "pushing" them for more power, while Aguilar appears to be more conservative in their design. Would love to know more about how the power on these two compares in the real world.

This is very true..GB has their proprietary power management. I can't remember what they call it. Basically, they "overclock" the amps to get more power. Aguilar does use the same power amps. Dave B from Aguilar made a post about it in the TH500 thread I believe. He went into depth about how they use the amps.

That said, I would say the TH500 is a "conservative" 500 watts and the SL900 is a very "liberal" 900 watts.

But, as Ken said..it still WUMPS!

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by KJung

Nice. I've never been a big fan of the Aguilar tone (a bit too mushy and wooly for me), but the Tonehammer sounds like I'd dig it (if I didn't already have an F500).

That being said, the Streamliner 900 WUMPS

I'm with you Ken...I have owned some Aguilar amps in the past and always ended up parting with them. That said...here is the part I did not put above. I actually ended up sending the TH500 back. While I liked it A LOT. I could not justify keeping it when I already have an F1 and I like the SL900 even better. I can't say enough good about it. Especially paired with the AE212!

[KJung]

Originally Posted by rodneyat

I'm with you Ken...I have owned some Aguilar amps in the past and always ended up parting with them. That said...here is the part I did not put above. I actually ended up sending the TH500 back. While I liked it A LOT. I could not justify keeping it when I already have an F1 and I like the SL900 even better. I can't say enough good about it. Especially paired with the AE212!

Pretty hard to beat the F1/F500 if you want it 'clean, tight and bright' and still warm and musical.

And yes, the Streamliner continues to please me to no end!

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

Just curious here, as you have used the TH pedal, how does it's eq section compare to the TH head, with the exception of the AGS switch being on or off ? I always wanted to try that pedal with a power amp.

I actually did a quick experiment the other day. I ran the Tone Hammer pedal through the Effects return of my F1. Just to see what it sounded like sending it through a lightweight power amp. I kept the F1 EQ flat (effects return is pre-eq on the F1) and was able to dial in a tone pretty much identical to the TH500. If you run it through a more "traditional" power amp it is going to take on a slightly different character just because it is a different type of power amp. But, still a great sound, nonetheless. I still use the Tone Hammer pedal any time I am playing live and going direct to the board without a rig. I also use it any time I record.

[IntrepidCellist]

Interesting. Through my cab and my playing style, I much preferred the TH500 to the Streamliner 600. The drive circuit really gives some thickness, punch, and compression, while the Streamliner's gain is much less defined and "hazy."

[JxBass]

Thanks Rodney, nice job. I've been curious about the TH500 and your comments tell me all I need to know.

I agree with you and others on the SL900, it caused me to jettison my long-standing #1 (Markbass) amp.

[jebmd]

Nice shootout Rodney, I was ready to pull the trigger on the TH500 now that they are available but, I think I'll go with the SL900.

Thanks!

[IntrepidCellist]

Guys, the SL900 and the TH500 are pretty much apples and oranges when it comes to a micro. I'd recommend you try both before you buy one

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by IntrepidCellist

Interesting. Through my cab and my playing style, I much preferred the TH500 to the Streamliner 600. The drive circuit really gives some thickness, punch, and compression, while the Streamliner's gain is much less defined and "hazy."

I would actually agree with that. But, that said, I have not tried an SL600...only the 900. For me, the SL900 already has the extra thickness and punch that you can introduce with the drive circuit on the TH500. But, if you don't want that extra thickness and punch, it will be harder to dial it out of the SL900. With the TH500, just turn the drive knob to zero. But, I have spent a good bit of time with the preamp gain and volume dials with the SL900 and you really can get some decent gain without introducing the tubey overdriven sound. But, it has taken some time to experiment with the two dials to get it down. The drive circuit on the TH500 is definitely more simple and easy to use.

[IntrepidCellist]

The 600 and 900 sounded pretty much identical to me. Granted, I didn't play the 900 through my cab, but I played the 600 and 900 through an identical Berg 210 and I didn't get any more "oomph" from one or the other. Not for lack of trying either

I am a "rock grind" guy though, and I play in a three-piece and prefer a very aggressive mid-forward and slightly dirty tone. "Hi-fi" and "wide-band" are less my goals than hitting like a ton of bricks.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by IntrepidCellist

The 600 and 900 sounded pretty much identical to me. Granted, I didn't play the 900 through my cab, but I played the 600 and 900 through an identical Berg 210 and I didn't get any more "oomph" from one or the other. Not for lack of trying either

I am a "rock grind" guy though, and I play in a three-piece and prefer a very aggressive mid-forward and slightly dirty tone. "Hi-fi" and "wide-band" are less my goals than hitting like a ton of bricks.

You would never notice a difference between the 600 and 900through a 210. The cab would give out long before the amp would. I believe the 600 and 900 actually use the same power module.... the difference is in the limiting and cooling that allows the 900 to keep cranking when turned up and pushed at 4ohms through a cab that can take it.


Your preference makes sense. While the Streamliner can grunt, its forte (IMO) is a wide, clean, all tube like tone... BIG down low, smooth in the mids, and with that unique top end that I've never heard in another hybrid or solid state amp.

Mid forward, aggressive it is not. I again love the sort of Bob Glaub vibe it gives you.

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by IntrepidCellist

I am a "rock grind" guy though, and I play in a three-piece and prefer a very aggressive mid-forward and slightly dirty tone. "Hi-fi" and "wide-band" are less my goals than hitting like a ton of bricks.

Like Ken said..if that is your goal...the TH500 is probably a better fit. I still truly believe it's a killer amp. They will sells tons of them and I still think Aguilar is a top notch company. They know how to build good stuff AND support it better than most outfits out there.

[12bass]

Originally Posted by KJung

I believe the 600 and 900 actually use the same power module.... the difference is in the limiting and cooling that allows the 900 to keep cranking when turned up and pushed at 4ohms through a cab that can take it.

IIRC, the Streamliner 600 uses the ICEpower 125ASX2, while the 900 uses the 250ASX2 (as does the TH500). These same modules are also used in the other GB Shuttle 600/900 W micro amps.

[FunkyMcNasty]

Thank you for doing this comparison. I've been trying to decide between the th and gb 9. I think I'm going with the streamliner. Thanks again.

[rodneyat]

Originally Posted by 12bass

IIRC, the Streamliner 600 uses the ICEpower 125ASX2, while the 900 uses the 250ASX2 (as does the TH500). These same modules are also used in the other GB Shuttle 600/900 W micro amps.

Interesting..so, on the SL600, they are doing the same thing. Pushing the amp beyond what it was designed to do. Even more so than the SL900 since they are pushing 250 watts to a rating of 600 vs 500 watts to a rating of 900. Hmmmmm

[12bass]

Originally Posted by rodneyat

Interesting..so, on the SL600, they are doing the same thing. Pushing the amp beyond what it was designed to do. Even more so than the SL900 since they are pushing 250 watts to a rating of 600 vs 500 watts to a rating of 900. Hmmmmm

Actually, the modules are run in BTL mode, effectively doubling the output power. The interesting bit is that the larger 250ASX2 module is only rated by B&O into 8 ohms bridged, yet both Aguilar and GB are using it into four ohm loads, with GB claiming 80% more power. I'm curious as to how their designs differ as well as how those differences would be measured in controlled testing. Maybe Tom Bowlus can help us out?

ICEpower info here: ICEpower — Consumer & Professional Audio