Streamliner or Shuttle?

[jlepre]

I am at a crossroads, and I would like some advice from some of you guys who know more about this stuff.

I have an opportunity to buy either the Genz Benz Streamliner STM-900, or the Shuttle 9.

I know that the only thing they have in common is the power module, as they both put out the same wattage (500 @ 8 ohms & 900 @ 4 ohms).

My real concern is the sound that each of these amps will acheive. I will most likely be pairing these with the new Genz Uber Quad running at 8 ohms.

I mainly play classic rock in a 4 piece setup with one guitar, keys, and very limited FOH support in a small club setting. So what I get needs to fill the room.

If you guys/gals had a choice, what would you get for this setup?

I've never had a TUBE amp, so I'm no sure how I will like the TUBEY sound of the Streamliner. I have read ALL the threads, and know that I can still acheive a relatively CLEAN sound from either amp.

I hope that some of the Genz people like Hasbeen and Aged Horse will chime in at some point.

Thanks again!

[nostatic]

Running flat, conventional wisdom would say Shuttle is more hi fi, Streamliner more lo fi. Since no one is yet gigging a Streamliner, hard to tell. My short spin with one left me feeling that it has a good solid "warm" sound. Again, the cw would be Streamliner for rock, especially if you want to cop an SVT sound. Shuttle if you want a more "modern" tone.

[rodl2005]

+1 By the talk on here- Streamliner for rock!! I recently got a great deal on a Shuttle 6.0 & I't MAINLY gonna be used for a back up for my Mesa WA Scout.

But I used it @ last nite's gig(thru a Berg AE212) using an Acoustic uprite & my AC EUT5 Jazz style electric.

I had the tube gain up around 2 o'clock & when I dug in got a nice growl. When I played soft I got a nice clean tone!!

Liked it!

[svtb15]

I have not played the Streamliner yet.. \The shuttle can be rather hifi as someone else said.. And in a good way.. But it has a nice wide tone with great attack for most rock stuff.. If you have a hi output bass you can get some distortion by opening up the input alot..
The Uber1288 cab is my favorite all around clean full sounding cab..

[calypsocoral302]

Hi Jlepre,

I think another important question to ask yourself is "What am I going to be playing in the future?"

If you picture yourself staying in a classic rock band (or "hard" alternative... or the more "classic" forms of metal), I would say Streamliner, with a 2x12 cab (I would consider the GB212T-UB for classic rock and the NeoX-212T for metal).

If you can picture yourself branching out into a multitude of styles, much like a "session" or "studio" bassist, then I would perhaps steer you toward the Shuttle (or the ShuttleMAX 9.2, which should be released very soon) with the Uber-Quad cab.

[hasbeen]

to the OP- can you reference a type of rock tone you like?

Also, Ed Friedland gigged with a Streamliner last night. Maybe you can shoot him a PM.

[jlepre]

Thanks guys for all of the input. The main tone I look for is deep but defined. I love the sound I used to get with my SVT4 PRO and SVT610HLF. That really shook the walls, but still was able to be heard. I also used an SVT410HLF that was REALLY deep. A bit less defined that the 610. So, I'm looking for somewhere in between the two.

I only play ACTIVE basses, so I guess very high output.

I thought I remember reading in that HUGE thread that the Streamliner can sound close to a Shuttle if I don't push the gain too hard. Thoughts?

HASBEEN...do you know what cab Ed used last night, and will the dealers have the Streamliner's soon?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by jlepre

Thanks guys for all of the input. The main tone I look for is deep but defined. I love the sound I used to get with my SVT4 PRO and SVT610HLF. That really shook the walls, but still was able to be heard.

I only play ACTIVE basses, so I guess very high output.

I thought I remember reading in that HUGE thread that the Streamliner can sound close to a Shuttle if I done put the gain too hard. Thoughts?

HASBEEN...do you know what cab Ed used last night, and will the dealers have the Streamliner's soon?

The Streamliners are making their way to dealerships now, so they are available.

FYI, active versus passive has no relationship to the output level of the bass. My hottest output bass BY FAR, is the only passive bass I own, a Norstrand P bass.

No one has really heard the Streamliner yet (I guess other than Ed). Those of us who pre ordered one (at least 10 TBers) should have ours from Rocket Music in 7-10 days. I would wait until you can get some feedback from TBers who will be putting up reviews and clips in the next two weeks.

I hope to have a clip or two and detailed review of the direct shuttle 9 to Streamliner 9 comparison posted very soon after my Streamliner is delivered (my buddy Mikebass will bring is Shuttle 9 over here).

And, don't forget about the Shuttle Max 9.... lots of EQ power, a bit larger than the other two, but dual FET/Tube channels, and most importantly, variable voicing filters that would allow you to fine tune the low end much better than the Shuttle 9 IMO (and IME, with my experience with the Max 6/12).

Hold on for 10 more days, and you should have some better info.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by svtb15

I have not played the Streamliner yet.. \The shuttle can be rather hifi as someone else said.. And in a good way.. ..

I have not been a huge Shuttle fan as it is a bit too hi-fi for my tastes and never really heard enough "tube" tone.
Last night I played a double bill where we shared the same Schroeder cab - I played a Stingray & Walkabout the other player a G&L & Shuttle.
He had a very nice, full, hi-fi tone. Presumably the Streamliner will be similar to the Walkabout.
IMO it appears that it will come down to the same old SS vs. Tubey preference.

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by jlepre

Thanks guys for all of the input. The main tone I look for is deep but defined. I love the sound I used to get with my SVT4 PRO and SVT610HLF. That really shook the walls, but still was able to be heard. I also used an SVT410HLF that was REALLY deep. A bit less defined that the 610. So, I'm looking for somewhere in between the two.

I only play ACTIVE basses, so I guess very high output.

I thought I remember reading in that HUGE thread that the Streamliner can sound close to a Shuttle if I don't push the gain too hard. Thoughts?

HASBEEN...do you know what cab Ed used last night, and will the dealers have the Streamliner's soon?

there's plenty of headroom on the input to get clean, warm, tube tone. Think "studio tube-pre" tone. If you hit the gain button, then, you can go to more classic tube amp tones.

We tried to engineer as much "throw" in the front end as we could.

Side note: I agree with what KJ said. While some active basses are quite hot, others aren't. As well, some have trim pots so you can set the active and passive output at parity.

[jlepre]

I think I have an idea now. I wish Ed would wake up! LOL

The basses I play are EBMM. I have a Reflex 5 on order that has both Active and Passive mode, so that should give me alot of sound options.

[Willem]

Originally Posted by hasbeen

there's plenty of headroom on the input to get clean, warm, tube tone. Think "studio tube-pre" tone. If you hit the gain button, then, you can go to more classic tube amp tones.

We tried to engineer as much "throw" in the front end as we could.

Re Studio tube pre tone: That sounds great!
Re 'throw': what do you mean by that? (My mother tongue isn't English)

[svtb15]

Yes.. everyone has their own tonal goals. I like that GB is perhaps the first to jump into this multi tube front end on a Class D amp territory.. Uncharted territory..
It gives the GB fans and new comers alike a wider palette to choose from...
So if the shuttle is not someones cup of tea.. perhaps the streamliner could fit the niche'.
I am actually flying to Austin in 3 hours today for a gig tonight.. Yup the shuttle 9 is in my gigbag again.

Originally Posted by Jim C

I have not been a huge Shuttle fan as it is a bit too hi-fi for my tastes and never really heard enough "tube" tone.
Last night I played a double bill where we shared the same Schroeder cab - I played a Stingray & Walkabout the other player a G&L & Shuttle.
He had a very nice, full, hi-fi tone. Presumably the Streamliner will be similar to the Walkabout.
IMO it appears that it will come down to the same old SS vs. Tubey preference.

[hasbeen]

Originally Posted by Willem

Re Studio tube pre tone: That sounds great!
Re 'throw': what do you mean by that? (My mother tongue isn't English)

"throw.....swing". By this mean it has a wide range of tones....from very clean to all-out tube distortion.

[Jim C]

Originally Posted by svtb15

Yes.. everyone has their own tonal goals. I like that GB is perhaps the first to jump into this multi tube front end on a Class D amp territory.. Uncharted territory..
It gives the GB fans and new comers alike a wider palette to choose from...
So if the shuttle is not someones cup of tea.. perhaps the streamliner could fit the niche'.

+1 & well said
Does GB have any interest in developing an all tube amp as they seem to be on a red hot R&D groove.
Suppose the Streamliner will probably squash some of this demand though.

[jlepre]

Originally Posted by Jim C

+1 & well said
Does GB have any interest in developing an all tube amp as they seem to be on a red hot R&D groove.
Suppose the Streamliner will probably squash some of this demand though.

That gives me another question. I know this is a hybrid amp, but how close can it come to a REAL 100% tube sound?

[jlepre]

Anyone?

[edfriedland]

I think it comes very close to "real" tube tone. The front end combined with the 3DPM thing-a-ma-hoochie does the job. (How's that for tech-speak!)

From what I've been told, the 3DPM is a circuit that manages the low frequency peaks that usually send the amp into clipping, but leaves the mids and highs unaffected. So it has the "sag" feel in the low end you get from a tube power amp, but you retain the clarity and detail. Personally, I think it makes the tube tone more effective in some ways - you don't lose your attack in a sea of mud for one thing.

But bottom line, an all tube amp is what it is. No hybrid will ever be exactly like it. But the Streamliner seems to hit the performance aspects we're looking for from all tubes, with some of the benefits of modern technology.

I'll be taping some stuff with it soon.

[jlepre]

Ed,

Thanks again for taking the time to put into words what's going on with the GB stuff. I'm very inexperienced with the TUBE stuff, as I have mostly owned SS in my 30+ years of gigging. The real draw for me is to have the choice of running a CLEAN mix, or pumping up the gain and getting really WARM. I hope that makes sense.

[hensonbass]

I'm curious how the tube channel tone of the Shuttle 9.2 compares to the Streamliner. How different would they sound?

They seem to share the 3D power amp design.