Is the stv 7 pro's limiter too limiting?

lokikallas · #1 10-17-2011, 01:54 PM

I've had the 7 pro now for a few months, and I finally hit the wall that I've only heard about. At first I though something was wrong with my amp, but I figured out that it must be the limiter. Here's the scenario, I am playing through one avatar 153 with my metal band. I forgot my westone earplugs, so I borrow some foamies. I start turning up and soon after playing, I start cutting out. I took out my earplugs and asked the guys to chill for a minute. Even after turning down a hair, I realized I was playing at the "tear your head off" level. The foamies covered up the painful sound so much, I didn't even notice I was at my limits. I give massive credit to the 153, as it took all 600 watts at 8ohms in stride.
I could never turn it up that loud with the 2nd 153 paired up, ( I don't think my body could handle that much spl ) but part of me still didn't like somebody else deciding what my hard limit should be. On the other hand I don't want a puff of smoke to be the indication I've met my limit, but I was a little surprised at the suddenness of the cut off. It would crap out for about 30 seconds, and then be fine. Granted, I was ridiculously loud with even that single 153. Anyone else find the limiter in the 7 pro a little bit surprising?

BurningSkies · #2 10-17-2011, 01:58 PM

That's not limiting...that's thermal shutdown.

will33 · #3 10-17-2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BurningSkies

That's not limiting...that's thermal shutdown.

+1

That's beyond limiting, it's your amplifier saving itself from certain death.

Not to nitpick your band but I've never understood needing earplugs for practice. Why not just turn down, take the plugs out and appear just as loud as you did turned up with them in? In a live setting if you have to turn up to achieve some needed output like not having adequate PA or something I can understand.

tombowlus · #4 10-17-2011, 02:25 PM

Can you look on the top of the chassis, near the back, and tell me what "Rev #" you have? What your are experiencing is very indicative of a limiter issue which we discovered when we were testing a Rev A version of the 7Pro. This issue should be resolved, however, in the latest iteration, which is the Rev C.

lokikallas · #5 10-17-2011, 03:40 PM

It's a rev c for sure. I was under the impression that ampeg put a limiter on the amp to protect it. If so then it worked. If not then I guess it's pretty tough, because it is working fine. I always wear earplugs anytime I'm within a few feet of cymbals. That night I ended up wearing shooting range db protection rather than my usual 15. It totally screwed up my perceived volume.

Sifl · #6 10-17-2011, 03:53 PM

I always have to turn down when I have earplugs in!

will33 · #7 10-17-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokikallas

It's a rev c for sure. I was under the impression that ampeg put a limiter on the amp to protect it. If so then it worked. If not then I guess it's pretty tough, because it is working fine. I always wear earplugs anytime I'm within a few feet of cymbals. That night I ended up wearing shooting range db protection rather than my usual 15. It totally screwed up my perceived volume.

With the cymbals I get it. In one band I was in years ago (young) the drummer had harsh sounding cymbals he hit hard. I was always setup on the drummers right and wore a plug in my left ear. I just don't see it as necessary when playing with people who control their volume.

BurningSkies · #8 10-17-2011, 05:17 PM

I have permanent fairly serious hearing loss from standing next to loud cymbals for a good amount of time. Be careful.

Now, again, what you're experiencing isn't limiting. Limiting does just that, stops from your amp from getting louder than a certain point. Its compression but in its most extreme form.

You don't experience complete loss of volume with limiting. That's what happens when your amp decides its going to shut itself down temporarily before damage.

rpsands · #9 10-17-2011, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by will33

+1

That's beyond limiting, it's your amplifier saving itself from certain death.

Not to nitpick your band but I've never understood needing earplugs for practice. Why not just turn down, take the plugs out and appear just as loud as you did turned up with them in? In a live setting if you have to turn up to achieve some needed output like not having adequate PA or something I can understand.

If you don't want earplugs for standing next to an acoustic drumset, something's wrong, or you're a jazz player

I can't take 20" crashes without ear plugs.

You can't make a 20" crash sound right without hitting it at least to a certain point (that is uncomfortable for me).

rodl2005 · #10 10-17-2011, 05:54 PM

+1. Cymbals in me ears -NO MORE! I wear an earplug on my side nearest the drums
.
I've not run my 7PRO that loud for that long, but DID run it into a 4 ohm load LOUD(master vol near full, gain on about 3.30-40clock) for a few mins. Mine didn't shut off, tho I DID notice the limiter light flash on 'n off.
She's all working perfectly so far. Some of these stories make me a tad nervous at important gigs... :-/ But, as I say- NOT a glitch so far

will33 · #11 10-17-2011, 06:21 PM

BurningSkies summed the limiter/protection thing pretty well.

As far as earplugs, maybe I'm just lucky or haven't had enough exposure to do permanent damage yet. When you're young louder is always better and I've done countless earsplitting volume rock band rehearsals and gigs but that was all 10+ years ago. Things are more "sane" now. Currently our stage volume is well under control, I don't like to rehearse loud, I'd rather be able to hear/distinguish parts and songs being worked on. My drummer can bash like Bonham if he wants to but he's older and wiser as well and we're blessed with a guitarist who wants to hear the whole group sound good and not just his Marshall blasting up his ass......maybe I am lucky.

@ fdeck, I can't play jazz but sure wish I could

I'm the guy always bitching at people to turn stuff down whether it's the tv or stereo in the house or other guitar players or whatever.

When I go to concerts I'm not the guy up front by the speaker stacks either. I usually get as close to the soundboard as I can because I like to hear what they're hearing but oftentimes that's too loud too, then I'm way in the back. It is possible I do have some high frequency loss and just don't realize it yet I guess.

tombowlus · #12 10-17-2011, 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lokikallas

It's a rev c for sure. I was under the impression that ampeg put a limiter on the amp to protect it. If so then it worked. If not then I guess it's pretty tough, because it is working fine. I always wear earplugs anytime I'm within a few feet of cymbals. That night I ended up wearing shooting range db protection rather than my usual 15. It totally screwed up my perceived volume.

Gotcha. It's doing its thing, then. Man, I can't imagine how loud that must have been to go into limiting! With a single 4-ohm 4x10, I find the 7Po to be way louder than I will ever need, even at gigs without PA support.

lokikallas · #13 10-17-2011, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Gotcha. It's doing its thing, then. Man, I can't imagine how loud that must have been to go into limiting! With a single 4-ohm 4x10, I find the 7Po to be way louder than I will ever need, even at gigs without PA support.

Yeah, it was pretty ridiculous. When I took out my earplugs, I noticed how loud it really was, and I had to laugh a little. I was surprised that it could do that. I also had it on the furniture dolly still, not sitting on the floor. It might have contributed a little to the disconnect.