SUGGEST: Dual channel tube preamp or amp with clean tube and heavy overdrive channels

[gastric]

I'm looking for either a tube preamp or full amp that can provide me with a similar sound to what I'm currently enjoying, but also be able to switch in some excellent heavy overdrive.

Here's my current setup:

• 4 string P-basses. Fender with Nord NP4, Lakland Duck Dunn w/Lakland pickup. Both are slightly higher output than any of my other basses, including an active Jazz.
• BOSS SE-70 for various overdrive/fuzz sounds
• BBE BMax-T set to low gain, gives just a hint of tube smoothness and fullness but is not overly gritty sounding as dialed in
• Peavey IPR-1600 power amp
• Accugroove El Whappo Jr

I enjoy the rig, it's very thick, tube-y and punchy without mud in the low end. I can punch in some overdrive and fuzz (or other effects) via the BOSS unit. But it occupies another rack space, has a power brick, and toggling the bypass has about a 1/4-1/2 second lag.[/list]I'd like to explore replacing the whole rig or just the BOSS and BBE with some other tube unit that can channel switch between a fat but not totally dirty clean channel and a serious overdrive and/or fuzz channel that doesn't lose all of it's bass. I have grown to prefer tube preamps, it rolls off some of the often harsh highs in solid state preamps, and fattens up the low end it seems without requiring you to physically boost the bass.

Some other gear I've owned.

• Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0 - the tube in that didn't seem to apply the some fat, smoothness that the BBE provides. And overall I though the unit has way too much cutting high end I couldn't quite tame.
• Eden Navigator - but always ran it as clean as possible at the time, but enjoyed it's seemingly unique mid-rangey sound. I sold it as at the time I could only fit a 1U preamp, and it didn't have any switchable heavy overdrive.
• ADA MB-1 - Tons of controls, but I just never liked the sound that came out of it. It lacked good EQ controls, the semi-parametric were very narrow or something. But either way it just never sounded quite right to me. And the overdrive wasn't great, though I never tried higher gain tubes as some suggested. I always wanted to love it, 1U, presets, chorus/compressor, so much functionality. I just never loved the sound.
• Yamaha PB1 - I actually loved the sound of this even though it was solid state. Nice, smooth, fat low end, you could roll back the highs to kill the harshness without totally losing the treble (which I can do with the BMax-T as well). However, my basses have fairly high output and I could never set the gain on the unit just right, so when I played with a heavy hand the low end would always clip or something. It seemed like it needed a pad on the input, but the PB1 doesn't have active/passive inputs or any pad control.
• I generally dislike the typical scooped, muddy Ampeg sound.
• But don't like totally clean hi-fi, either.

If an entire amplifier I'd prefer it not to weigh more than 40lbs total.

Of course I replace the BOSS with an overdrive and/or fuzz pedal and have that available at my foot. But my rig right now doesn't use any pedals except a dinky non-powered 2-button foot switch I made for the BOSS so I can bypass the unit and toggle one other parameter. It fits into the rack when I'm done, I don't have to carry a pedal board, worry about batteries or AC power for it, etc. etc.

Trying to keep it as simple as I can.

[silky smoove]

Everything you listed just SCREAMED Gallien-Krueger 2001RB... Right up until you mentioned that it can't weigh more than 40lbs. The 2001RB is basically the same weight as an Aguilar DB750 (I've owned both), or a boat anchor of similar size

[Ron Now]

Aguilar AG500

best sounding bass overdrive I've ever come across.

500 watts at 4 ohms

Under 40 lbs

[gastric]

I've become adverse to heavy objects these days. I sold a 40lbs QSC RMX and replaced it with the 7lbs Peavey IPR. Sold my monstorously heavy Peavey bass cabs for a 60lb Accugroove, which incidentally I like the sound of much better - you can really hear the note definition, and no mud.

[73jbass]

See if you can find a Pearce BC-1 preamp. 2 selectable and blendable channels with a nice limiter,and great overdrive.

[nostatic]

You might check out a TC RH450. It will do overdrive, though thoughts are mixed on the sound of it at the extremes. Very far from hi-fi, 3 channels, warm and punchy. 9lbs. Add a pedal for more extreme dirt and you're set.

[silky smoove]

If the type of clean tone found in a BBE Bmax-T is what gastric is looking for, I think the RH450 would not be an ideal choice. Quite different sounding. If the compromise between a different type of clean tone is acceptable, than the RH450 would certainly cover all of your needs, would have plenty of power to drive an El Whappo Jr. (purely based on memory, not from reviewing specs) AND would be super lightweight.

I wonder how the wide and relatively polite voicing of the Whappo stuff would pair with the RH450 though. I know Kjung and Don from LDS were very underwhelmed by the combination of an RH450 with a 15/6, which has a similar wide and relatively polite voicing.

[bongomania]

The GK is also available as a preamp, that you could pair with an ultralight head or power amp. DHA makes some dual-channel tube preamps that you might like, and he can make them in rack format. The Aguilar AGRO, Warwick Quadruplet, and H&K Fortress might be worth looking at (I don't swear they 100% meet your specs, my memory of them isn't that clear).

[gastric]

With the El Whappo I generally have to cut the mids on the BMax-T to compensate for the increased yield in that range with the 3 way cab, and boost the lows and low mids slightly since the cab is so flat and I'm used to lots of low. But the good news is the BMax-T has low/mid/semi-parametric mid/high/bright controls so you can really shape. I'd be concerned with anything that only has low/mid/high controls only. In contrast the Peavey 410 I'd usually bump the mids since the cab scooped it so much and then cut the lows since the cab was so pronounced in that low end.

One issue is that in Raleigh there's a real hole in the local offerings for bass gear. We have Sam Ash, Guitar Center, and a handful of smaller stores that carry really limited amounts of bass gear in stock that you can try. So I typically end up sourcing used online, and sometimes on eBay if there's a good BIN deal I can pair with 8%+ Bing cashback or a monster 25-30% MF coupon, that way I can try gear and resell for my money back if I don't like it, which is often the case.

[Calaverasgrande]

I dont know but let us all know when you find it!
Maybe the Mesa M3 or M6?

[blastjv]

The AG500 is a great amp, but I think you would find the clean channel TOO clean. I found myself wishing I could blend the two channels (spoiled by GB amps). My ideal sound was somewhere in between the clean channel set as aggressively as possible and the overdrive channel set as clean as possible.

For full-on bass distortion, I've never heard anything that sounded as good as the overdrive channel of the AG500 (SO stoked to check out the agro pedal when it comes out!!!)

-John

[groove pump]

I've got an Ampeg SVP-BSP preamp that does some of the stuff you're talking about. Two channels (clean and OD) that can blend or run separately, eq's on both channels, lots of patching options, only one 12ax7, but the clean channel has a nice tone...

These aren't everywhere you look, but if you keep an eye out, you might happen to come across this pre somewhere.

[Luke666uk]

Nah the M3/M6/M9 is a clean machine! What you want is a Mesa Big Block 750!

[gastric]

Thanks. I came here to post about the Mesa 750 - I already honed in on it via research. Seems like exactly what I'm looking for, though a bit heavier than I was hoping if it's in a headcase. But for the footswitched overdrive and general tubey clean sound it seems like the bid'ness. Again, no way I can try before I buy with that particular amp, nobody has them locally. But from one other user I've talked to the MESA was a better sound than the AG500, at least in their opinion.

The MESA Titan would seem to be the end all be all but is way out of my price range, even used. Plus it's ginormous.

One odd thing with MESA is they don't seem to publish, at least on their site, the dimensions and weight of their heads. It's not even in the product manuals.

[Son of Bovril]

Fender TBP-1 preamp could do it

[gastric]

Just a quick follow up on my quest for a dual channel ass kickin' bass amp.

I ended up blindly buying a MESA Big Block 750. Afterwards I also was able to try a Fender TBP-1 locally. I still own my BBE BMax-T, at least at the time I write this post.

Preamps are run through a Peavey IPR1600. My cab is an Accugroove El Whappo Jr. Bass is usually a Lakland Skyline Duck Dunn P-bass.

Here's my quickie thoughts on the three amps/preamps.

I'll start with the conclusion.

If I was serious about killer overdrive/distortion/fuzz/dirt in the end I'd just buy some pedals and be done with it. It's too much effort and money trying to find a 2 channel head that has killer clean and also killer overdrive.

But for the overall sound and functionality I'm going with the MESA Big Block 750. If money was no object I'd probably grab a Titan.


MESA BB750
It's silly heavy. Though everything is after buying Peavey IPR. Seriously, this thing weighs 30lbs outside the rack. I feel like I'm going backwards in that regard, I sold a Peavey Maxx that weight 27lbs because of the weight, got a Shuttle, went pre+power amp to lighten the rack, and now I'm back to a 30lbs slab of iron. In the head case it's back breakingly heavy. And the head case provides no real protection for the head during travel (front/back wide open) so they're really just a visual item IMO. MESA should make these out of aluminum or something, even it it shaved off only 10lbs that'd be huge.

But the amp has really great tone. Lots of cutting mid range. Bass galore if you want to dial it in. A huge swath of tubey gain available, and it genuinely sounds tubey compared to every other amp I've personally tried (no full tube amps). Quite a variety of EQ available, though still always fairly mid-rangey but not in a bad way IMO. A lot less pure sub-bass signal compared to my BBE BMax which comparatively is very mid scooped and heavily low sub bass sounding.

On the flip side I'm really wishy washy on the overdrive. I think my dislike is that I dial in a sweet "clean" tone via EQ, but it sounds too heavily slanted towards the high mid/high end once you engage the overdrive channel. I haven't decided yet whether it's truly usable or not. I think the Titan would solve that problem entirely as you have two totally independent channels with totally different EQ. But now you're talking a whole lot more money. And a much larger footswitch.

Fender TBP-1
Quite honestly I simply couldn't get a good tone out of it. I couldn't get any serious low end out of it without using the pull-deep which just sounded bad IMO. In contrast the BBE has really great, smooth, thick low end that doesn't get muddy or flabby. I played with it for probably 40 minutes going and just never got anything that sounded good much less killer. I'd switch back to the MESA BB750 and it's sound killer, switch back to the Fender, and then it'd sound even worse than before since I had the MESA sound in my head. And the overdrive was very poor, I wouldn't use it at all.

On the plus side it has EVERY possible preamp feature you could want.

BBE Bmax-T
I really do like this preamp. It's been my main amp into a Peavy IPR for months now. Super like, easy to dial in a good sound, smooth sounding, just the right amount of tubey hair though no usable overdrive or really fuzzy tube gain available. But absolutely warmer and tubey sounding compared to the solid state BMax which the T model replaced for me.

However, after picking up the MESA I've discovered what a killer tube based amp can really sound like. And I've also discovered that the BBE is heavily slanted towards the low end regardless of how you sculpt the EQ. And comparing it to the MESA it simply doesn't cut through a 5 piece rock band mix as well. I think due to the scooped mid sound. But when soloing it I really prefer the BMax-T sound overall, though it doesn't get that seriously tubey grind the MESA can produce.

If I had some gripes about the BBE is that it lacks a lot of features the competition has. No tuner out. No crossover outs. DI out doesn't have it's own level control (my biggest gripe).

I'll possibly sell it off, but probably keep it around for a while and pull it out a couple more times to compare again just to make sure I'm making the right decision to go with the MESA.

[Calaverasgrande]

30lbs is NOTHING.
Mesa bass 400 60lbs
bass 400+ about 75
SVT 90lbs
etc

[JimmyM]

loads take a couple minutes and then they're over. sometimes a gig can go a long time. consider the lifting part of getting psyched up to play, and think about how great you will sound.

but having a very light rig is always a good thing as well. not a bad idea to have one of each.

[gastric]

My point on the weight is simply that there's likely no reason it HAS to be that heavy. The actual components probably weigh 10lbs or less (guessing, I have no way to know), the rest is probably chassis. For the retail price they could make the chassis out of unobtainium, haha.

If anyone is curious I snapped 34MB of detailed photos of the unit's internals.

I'll try to get some clips comparing the MESA against the BMax-T with a BOSS SE-70 providing the overdrive sound for comparison. I'm hooked on the MESA's sound which is why I'm lugging it around.

It's too bad about the Fender TBP. I had high hopes. And the $400 used price tag makes your brain think it'll sound $150 better than most other preamps.

[Catdaddy]

I don't really have anything constructive to add--just the observation that given what a great setup the OP already has, this thread is one more proof that GAS is a never-ending phenomenon--I know that's true for me!