Suggestions for first rig

MyMusic · #1 06-03-2010, 08:11 PM

Hello everyone. I'm just getting started learning the bass at the ripe old age of 61. I'm currently using an Ibanez GSR200 bass and an Ibanez SW35 amp (35 watts). So far this is good for practice. My goal is to play at church and then progress from there. The Carvin factory is about 25 miles from my house so I've visited them along with others. I've decided to buy from Carvin, but I would like some input from the members here on the configuration. The 500 watt amp is what I have decided on. But what configuration? Combo with 1x15 or 2x10's or head and 1x15, 1x18 or 2x10? My purchase won't be for another 6-9 months.
Any help you can give is welcome and will be appreciated.

fivestringgecko · #2 06-03-2010, 09:35 PM

I've got both setups, and they both have pros and cons.

Combos are great for a "total package" approach and can be more cost effective than an amp and cab. Combos are all-in-one packages (duh) and easy to transport. I still have the first amp I ever bought, a Hartke Kickback 12, which has served me VERY well over the years. 1x12, 120 watt combo with a tilt-back design, I currently use it as my church amp. A combo amp might not be exactly right for every situation though, or may not be enough for certain gigs. Combos are stuck with the setup they're built with.

I much prefer the flexibility of an amp/cab setup, which can come in VERY handy. For something small, I can take my amp and 2x10. For something a bit bigger, same amp with my 2x12. Bigger yet, I can bring both cabs. It's also a great rig for practice... I face my 2x12 to the room and point the 2x10 directly at the drummer, which makes it great for really locking in. Amp/cab setups tend to be a little more expensive than combos though. They also require a little more haulin'... cab and head vs. a combo.

What it really comes down to is how much you want to spend, and how soon you think you might need/want to upgrade. The right combo amp will serve you well for years, but if you were to go with the amp/cab setup, you can start with a smaller cab and add or upgrade down the line if/when you need to. Lots of people will suggest to play any amps you can get your hands on at your local shops and pick the one that a) fits in your price range b) sounds best to your ears. Definitely a good suggestion. But based on what you've said so far, I think a 2x10 combo would be a great way to start. That Carvin one looks pretty decent, but I've never played Carvin anything.

Hope that helps at least a little bit... it just kind of touches the surface. I'm a gear junkie and would be happy to answer any more questions you might have.

5sg.

(subsribed)

countrybass007 · #3 06-03-2010, 10:21 PM

Great advice from Fivestringgecko, all I can add, since I'm your age, is keep weight in mind. There's a lot of nice gear out there that won't kill us more mature players lugging it around. The head and speaker cab can be a much easier transport than a comperable combo amp also.

Jim Carr · #4 06-03-2010, 10:29 PM

IMHO, a couple of good matching 8 ohm 210 cabs and a powerful head are a very flexible set up. Plus, you can start with one cab, and add the second one later. Another approach is to get a 4 ohm 410. Add an 8 ohm 210 to that and you can use it as a 610 where each speaker (individual driver) gets equal power, though, to quote the OHMS faq, "hooking up an 8 ohm cabinet and a 4 ohm cabinet in parallel to your amp gives the amp a load of 2.67 ohms to power." So get a 2 ohm capable head.

ThunderousFunk · #5 06-04-2010, 06:29 AM

Also too. Know the acoustics of the church cause it will help you with your research. I once took a 500watt head/400watt 15"cab, and it was too much. Lets just say that the people in the first 5 rows were probably deaf after that, and I only had the head on .5-1 on volume(jumped up pretty quick). I could've used a 10" combo then. Especially, if this is the only venue you plan on using your amp. But I'm in no way advocating that you should only look into a combo. I agree with everyone else on the head/cab mix. That way, if you do buy the 500watt head, and say a 2x10, you can always upgrade if needed(other gigs). Say, putting a 15" or an 18". Eventhough you get the "all-in-one-package" with a combo, you'll have to carry "all-in-one-trip". I probably just repeated what 5stringGecko said, but also look into the room/hall you're playing too, it might help.

fivestringgecko · #6 06-04-2010, 09:05 AM

Thunderous makes a good point about knowing the room you're playing in. Since you're just starting, having a flexible amp setup up front could be something that you'll be extremely thankful for down the line. He also has a great point about having to carry a combo all-in-one.

It really seems like the trend in bass gear is that things are moving in the direction of smaller and lighter. Like Country says, there's a lot of great gear out there that really sounds good but won't break backs. That's exactly the reason I moved from a 127lb. 4x10 (Hartke Pro4200) to a 2x10/2x12 stack (both Avatar cabs). My 2x10 is 45lbs. and the 2x12 is only 56lbs. Neodymium magnets are fantastic IMO, they are literally a fraction of the weight of traditional ceramic magnets (7oz. vs. 60oz.) and still sound incredible while dramatically lowering cabinet weights.

I know you’ve checked out quite a bit of gear in your area, but have you checked out Avatar cabs? I was quite skeptical at first, but they get a lot of positive vibes around Talkbass. I took a chance and ordered my 2x10 solely based on buzz around TB and was (and still am) completely impressed. Customizable look (mine are blonde/black), custom Eminence neodymium drivers (longer Xmax... more speaker travel for more low end) and great customer service (Dave is the owner, answered the phone both times I called) all at a really great price. Both of my cabs are tight, punchy and loud, the 2x10 has quite impressive low end for its size and the 2x12 really gets going with a low B string... It can get absolutely thunderous. I got both custom cabs for less than $800 and I get nothing but compliments.

Just thought I’d throw that out there for you.

5sg.

A couple Avatar threads for you:
Avatar Owners Club pt. 2 (pt 1 is linked in the first post)
Avatar Cabs
Another Avatar Cabs thread

becker4567 · #7 06-04-2010, 09:56 AM

500 watts in a church? Must be alot of semi-deaf heavy metal members in your flock.

lomo · #8 06-04-2010, 10:17 AM

My 02: separate head and pair of 112s. Forget the combo unless budget necessitates it. This will give max flexibility.

FritoBandito · #9 06-04-2010, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becker4567

500 watts in a church? Must be alot of semi-deaf heavy metal members in your flock.

LOL!! I bet the little old ladies in the front row are going to appreciate every one of those watts! Rock on girls!

Scottgun · #10 06-04-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becker4567

500 watts in a church? Must be alot of semi-deaf heavy metal members in your flock.

Remember that we are talking about Carvin watts.

Anyway, I'm a head/speaker guy. Most of the time the head is on the speaker, but every now and then I'd run into a situation where I wanted the head in one place and the speaker in another.

ThunderousFunk · #11 06-04-2010, 12:30 PM

You all are too freakin funny!!! But I must say, it was all I had at the time. It was actually a Carvin ProBass 500 w/ a 1x15" JBL in a custom-made cab. Thanks for the laughs.

countrybass007 · #12 06-04-2010, 02:03 PM

I use an SP212 by Orange, and they also offer an SP210. They're light weight and put out a great sound, even at low volumes.

fivestringgecko · #13 06-04-2010, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countrybass007

I use an SP212 by Orange, and they also offer an SP210. They're light weight and put out a great sound, even at low volumes.

That's Orange's isobaric 2x12, right? Man, I've really wanted to check out those isobarics for a while now (but I'd probably go after the SP210)! I know this might divert the thread a little, but what are your thoughts on that cab? I've heard they're not the super loudest, but they go really low. If I could also ask, how much did that run you?

5sg.

muddycreek · #14 06-04-2010, 06:11 PM

That 500W 1-15 Carvin combo is like 40 pounds, that'd be a good bet. You would likely never need to do more than add another cabinet for any gig you might play. Weighs less than any of their bass cabinets by itself.

fivestringgecko · #15 06-04-2010, 06:50 PM

Hey, I just had another thought!

What you buy would also be influenced by what type of music you think you might want to play.

I personally go for a more modern tone (check out players like Ray Riendeau, Doug Johns, Adam Nitti, Marcus Miller, Victor Wooten, etc. for an idea). Because of that, I like 10's/12's and cabs that have tweeters. Then I can start with a super clean modern tone and use EQ, pedals or the tube pre on my Shuttle to dirty up my tone for the "right" sound for what I'm playing.

However, if you're thinking that classic rock, blues, reggae, motown/old school funk or other similar styles might be your thing... maybe a 15" with no tweeter would be the way to go. Bigger drivers have a darker, not-so-punchy sound. Check out stuff like Stevie Wonder, anything James Jamerson played on (Motown and R&B stuff), maybe some Steve Miller Band, Eagles, Commodores, etc. In that case... maybe an Ampeg B-15 would be your golden gun (but it IS 117lbs! Yikes).

Anyway, just another thought.

5sg.

countrybass007 · #16 06-05-2010, 09:52 AM

The isobaric Orange cabs are amazing! My SP212 with my Tiny Terror puts out plenty of sound for smaller gigs. A bass player friend of mine, who uses two GK1000RBIIs and two GK412 cabs, couldn't believe the sound I got from my "tiny" rig. I did pay about $800 dollars for the SP212, but it was worth every penny. The combination of one sealed cab speaker and one ported seems to work really well.

revroy · #17 06-05-2010, 11:01 AM

Good for you, taking on a new hobby at age 61! Enjoy it! Make some great music! Build some great relationships!

But, beware of GAS (or is it BAS here?) - Guitar (or Bass) Acquisition Syndrome - the idea that there is always some new piece of gear out there that will take your sound to the next level/be the real you/be just what you need. There clearly are better and worse pieces of equipment out there that can improve your sound and help make you a better player or do the opposite but remember that the real music comes from YOU not your gear. Don't get caught up in chasing the latest gear as a way of finding "your sound." It is easy to spend more time reading the forums than practicing, talking about the latest and greatest and ignoring your chops. OTOH, it is a fun hobby if you can afford it and don't let it get in the way of playing.

that said...

one other piece for the mix is that the combo cab in the current Carvins is essentially a speaker cab with a rack space for the head which slides in and out easily... so it ends up being sort of a hybrid.

FWIW, the head puts out 300 watts into 8 ohms which is what their combo speaker sections are. You would need to add an external cab to get the ohms down and the wattage up to 500.

I've been a guitar player for over 45 years and have just taken up bass as well. For me the trick is sounding like a bass player rather than a guitar player who is playing at bass.

fivestringgecko · #18 06-05-2010, 11:02 AM

Nice! This is the first weekend in a while that I don't really have anything going on, so I'm going to check out a local Orange dealer. Never been to that shop before... We'll see I guess!

I don't need any gear and don't have any real G.A.S. at the moment, so this could be okay, could be bad.

lol

5sg.

BassmanPaul · #19 06-05-2010, 11:30 AM

Carvin have always treated me very well. Any glitch has be take care of to my complete satisfaction. I've just got myself a BX1500 which is the first actual bass amp I've purchased since the Sixties. It's light, loud and sounds wonderful. Did I say it was light!!!

Paul

MyMusic · #20 06-08-2010, 04:22 PM

Thanks for the all the replys. You guys have given me a few things to consider and its greatly appreciated. I know 500 watts seems like overkill for church, but I'm trying to keep from buying a 100 watt combo and then a year later having to spring for something completely new. Also I don't see much talk about 1x18 cabs. Any pros and cons on these?