Summit TD-100, TLA-50, and Bergantino IP112/EX112 --> Success!!!

[ac3320]

I suppose this thread is a little premature, since i don't actually have the EX112 or the TLA-50 yet. Got the IP and the TD-100 last week and finally got to play around with it this weekend.

Man, the IP is LOUD for a single 12" cab. I mean, i had it at the lowest volume setting and it was about as loud as i would want for my bedroom. Cranked it (just bass into the cab) and it was freaking crazy loud. I can only imagine how loud it would get when the EX gets here, and when driven by the summit stages.

Tried the TD-100 with my jazz and my precision, with and without the sadowsky pre/DI in the chain. Even though the TD-100 users here make it so painfully clear, i too fell prey to "Man, this thing doesn't sound like it has a tube in it." Then i stepped back and engaged my brain and realized that a lack of distortion/OD does not equate to a lack of tube warmth/sheen. The latter is what this thing has in spades. First i wanted to compare the TD with no tube gain (just SS) to full-tilt tube gain (26 dB). I cranked the tube gain on the TD and reduced my overall volume either on the pre or on my bass directly to match the gain when the tube was not part of the circuit. Man, there really is a difference. Sure, it's not an OD pedal, but more like slight hairyness to the notes. I don't want to say subtle, because if you're a bass player, you would notice. Not sure if the audience would, but your bandmates might live. Compared to the total SS circuit in the TD, the tube adds a nice character. Slapping was more pleasant on the Jazz anyways, and with the tube cranked, was a little subdued on the pops. Turned down the tube gain and up on the bass volumes and it was back to slap/clean city. Somewhere in between would probably be where i would want to be on a gig. Very pleasant tones.

I eagerly await the arrival of the EX cab. It is the older grill version EX112. I decided I wanted to make the grills match, and so i purchased a made-to-order grill with the same dimensions to replace the old silver one. Also, I bought some duratex to replace the IP/EX carpets. Also, going to ditch the plastic locking corners and just go with rubber feet for both cabs, with four recessed holes atop the EX for stacking the IP on top. Gonna go for the Berg AE look. A nice cosmetic update to these babies i think.

I also am waiting for the TLA-50. I've heard semi-conflicting reports about what it imparts to the whole sound. Some guys i talk to say that the main "tube warmth" from the TD/TLA combo is all from the TD, whereas some other guys on here think the TLA is just like the icing on the cake, really sweetening up the tone EVEN more than the TD alone. I'll let you all know.

Been a while since someone brought up the Berg IP stuff round here, so i thought i would stir it up. Seems Bassflute and chadds occupy most IP threads...wonder if there are any other IP users here

I've had so many rigs in the past two years it's ridiculous! Mostly i like trying out new things. I heard a friend playing through the Summit front end through an LMII and it was very nice sounding. Figured the IP series was worth checking out. See how it goes!

One thing i want to play around with is comparing how the sound/tone/feel changes by using either the XLR out from the TLA to the berg IP input and the TS (unbal) output of from the TLA to the berg IP. I've heard a balanced connection is always better, so we'll see.

Disclaimer: Making your own cables is a cheap way to do these experiments. I think one of mogami's quad mic cables at GC is like $50 for a reasonable length. I make mine for $12. If you can solder, you can save tons of money in your room/studio/rig by making your own cables. Good quality cable (I prefer mogami for its ample bulk quantity sources online) and connectors (i know neutrik isn't really mil spec or anything, but like they way the feel and come together. Plastic is good for some things

Peace all,
-Anthony

[Joshua]

I've been using an IP112/EX112/TD100 rig for well over 2 years now. It's quite simply the perfect rig for me...

[ac3320]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I've been using an IP112/EX112/TD100 rig for well over 2 years now. It's quite simply the perfect rig for me...

Berg mod as well? Here's a question I've posted n another thread and PM'd a few TD-100 users about: once the TLA-50 gets here, would the berg mod be unnecessary? I would adjust the output of the TLA to the berg so that the berg won't clip? THen use the berg's volume as a sort of master master?

[Joshua]

Mine has the Berg mod.

No idea beyond that though, sorry!

[ac3320]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Mine has the Berg mod.

No idea beyond that though, sorry!

Np thanks for your info!

[Groovin]

Originally Posted by ac3320

once the TLA-50 gets here, would the berg mod be unnecessary?

I'll chime in as a former TD-100/ IP user. (I still regret letting go of the TD-100 btw)

I would say that it is unecessary since the Berg mod is simply a resister added to the output that lowers the output a bit to not overdrive the IP. If you're running the TD-100 into the TLA-50, I would take that resister back off since you want to be able to drive the TLA-50 as much or as little as you want. I would not want to limit that possibility.

Btw, I got rid of my IP310 b/c of the weight, the bulkiness and could not fit it in my new car at the time. I honestly don't miss it since I moved on to using a Mesa M6 but the IP112 calls to me as a second rig for smaller/ medium gigs and rehearsals...

[ac3320]

That's the same conclusion i came to last night IP310/IP212 are some amazing cabs, just too heavy for me to ever gig with. I am strongly considering trying the "ER" versions of my current cabs, as they are supposed to be closer in overall "crazyiness" to the bigger cabs.

Originally Posted by Groovin

I'll chime in as a former TD-100/ IP user. (I still regret letting go of the TD-100 btw)

I would say that it is unecessary since the Berg mod is simply a resister added to the output that lowers the output a bit to not overdrive the IP. If you're running the TD-100 into the TLA-50, I would take that resister back off since you want to be able to drive the TLA-50 as much or as little as you want. I would not want to limit that possibility.

Btw, I got rid of my IP310 b/c of the weight, the bulkiness and could not fit it in my new car at the time. I honestly don't miss it since I moved on to using a Mesa M6 but the IP112 calls to me as a second rig for smaller/ medium gigs and rehearsals...

[Bassflute]

Just curious. The OP did send me about 50 PM's because he was so excited about this stuff. And I'm dying to know his impressions of the TLA.

Still love mine...incredible little thing. And no, you don't need the Berg mod with it, just use the volume knob. I did talk to the Summit guys about a linear pot, though...still might do that, as the volume know is INCREDIBLY touchy.

And if you're thinking of the IP-ER rig, just do it.

Cheers,
Cameron

[ac3320]

It's hard, cause everyone who has tried both thinks differently. Some appreciate the extra low end, some say it make the stack too boomy. Oh and on the TD/TLA combo. DANG. It is very tubey, i don't know if i'll be needing a REDDI after all, as i was considering picking one up for extra tube. (Heck, i still might for fun). Anyways, though, TLA adds some noise, and the volume is very touchy. Big difference between 9:00 o'clock and 9:30

Originally Posted by Bassflute

Just curious. The OP did send me about 50 PM's because he was so excited about this stuff. And I'm dying to know his impressions of the TLA.

Still love mine...incredible little thing. And no, you don't need the Berg mod with it, just use the volume knob. I did talk to the Summit guys about a linear pot, though...still might do that, as the volume know is INCREDIBLY touchy.

And if you're thinking of the IP-ER rig, just do it.

Cheers,
Cameron

[ac3320]

Oh and i found out the best way for me to connect both summit units stock to the Berg are as follows:
1. 1/4" TRS (bal) out of TD-100 to XLR in (bal) of TLA-50
2. 1/4" TS (unbal) out of the TLA-50 to XLR in (bal) of the IP112 (using the same type of cable that Jim supplies with his IP's.

I tried just going regular female XLR to male XLR into the IP, but it was WAY too hot -- i couldn't even move the TLA's output vol past 2 without clipping the IP input. Very touchy indeed, but less so with the unbal to balanced cable Jim supplies. In case you don't want to search the TB archives for info on the cable, it's just: 1) male TS with the shielding attached to the body of the jack, and the main wire on the regular "tip" location of the jack (if you've made your own instrument cables, this will make sense...if not, there are some good diagrams on the internet); 2) the shielding must be split in two, and each attached to pins 1, and 3 of the male XLR terminals, and pin 2 carrying the signal of the wire.

More on the summit front end: warming up does make it sound less thin. I'm still experimenting with the attack and release controls. fast, medium, slow settings for each. any suggestions?

[Bassflute]

Originally Posted by ac3320

Oh and i found out the best way for me to connect both summit units stock to the Berg are as follows:
1. 1/4" TRS (bal) out of TD-100 to XLR in (bal) of TLA-50
2. 1/4" TS (unbal) out of the TLA-50 to XLR in (bal) of the IP112 (using the same type of cable that Jim supplies with his IP's.

I tried just going regular female XLR to male XLR into the IP, but it was WAY too hot -- i couldn't even move the TLA's output vol past 2 without clipping the IP input. Very touchy indeed, but less so with the unbal to balanced cable Jim supplies. In case you don't want to search the TB archives for info on the cable, it's just: 1) male TS with the shielding attached to the body of the jack, and the main wire on the regular "tip" location of the jack (if you've made your own instrument cables, this will make sense...if not, there are some good diagrams on the internet); 2) the shielding must be split in two, and each attached to pins 1, and 3 of the male XLR terminals, and pin 2 carrying the signal of the wire.

More on the summit front end: warming up does make it sound less thin. I'm still experimenting with the attack and release controls. fast, medium, slow settings for each. any suggestions?

with the unbalanced out that Jim supplies, your are not driving that anywhere NEAR what it needs to put out full power. I eventually got used to the really 'hot' volume knob - it IS a little unsettling at first.

As I mentioned in our PM's, I like mine with a slow attack to keep the initial transients, and a fast decay, for it to return to normal quickly.

And ? about it sounding 'thin'...if that rig sounds 'thin', it ain't the rig, it's your bass...my MTD's sound MASSIVE through it. Incredible. And I've played Fenders and stuff through it and they sound, well, Fendery, if you like that sort of thing.

BTW, how do you have the IP button on the back set. In is one setting and out is a different setting, but you have to shut the rig off for at least five seconds to change it. On the old IP, one was for 2 cabs, and the other setting was for one cab.

Cheers,
Cameron

[ac3320]

Well on the touchy volume knob any suggestions there? You mentioned a linear pot maybe? I can't turn the output gain past 2 w/o clipping the berg... I'd like to have more control than that that's why I tried the unbalanced since I have about half a knobs turn on the TLA nil I'm clipping the berg like crazy. Speaking of crazy... I know this will seem like heiracy to u bassflute but idk if I need/want the TLA...I feel like all it adds is noise? Sure some compressing here And there but as far as adding Tubey squash hmm I just don't know. Maybe the cash could be better spent on the FeQ-50? Could just be buyers remorse and ill have to wait to try it on a gig my passive basses staright into the berg seems less tempermental tho for sure Oh and I have the button in right now as that is the corrext setting on the IP when the HT/EX extension cAb is present

Originally Posted by Bassflute

with the unbalanced out that Jim supplies, your are not driving that anywhere NEAR what it needs to put out full power. I eventually got used to the really 'hot' volume knob - it IS a little unsettling at first.

As I mentioned in our PM's, I like mine with a slow attack to keep the initial transients, and a fast decay, for it to return to normal quickly.

And ? about it sounding 'thin'...if that rig sounds 'thin', it ain't the rig, it's your bass...my MTD's sound MASSIVE through it. Incredible. And I've played Fenders and stuff through it and they sound, well, Fendery, if you like that sort of thing.

BTW, how do you have the IP button on the back set. In is one setting and out is a different setting, but you have to shut the rig off for at least five seconds to change it. On the old IP, one was for 2 cabs, and the other setting was for one cab.

Cheers,
Cameron

[chadds]

You may have some gain staging issues. Hence the noise and lack of tubey goodiness. Can you plug directly into the TLA and try that? Avoid the Feq-50. It's not designed for this application, bass guitar, and will disappoint you. It will work incredibly in your studio for mixing etc.

[chadds]

Actually I was never able to get full volume out of a TD and IP. I did the minute I used a dedicated bass pre. I know the attraction and love my TD-100 but for gigging with loud guitarists etc. a real bass pre allows me to roll off the bass as Jim suggests and get big sound. Of course since nothing sounds like the TD it took me on the pre search journey quest that many have embarked upon. Few have returned.

[Joshua]

I am of no assistance from the technical perspective (as in how or why it works), but I go bass -> TD100 -> IP112/EX112 (with the button engaged for 2 cab operation) and get all I've ever wanted or needed. Tubey goodness? Check. Volume? As much or more at least as compared to the few dedicated bass pres I've tried with it.

Cheers!

[ac3320]

Berg mod? when i crank the TD into the TLA, i can only have the volume on the TLA between 2-3 before clipping. I'd like to be able to run the TD full tilt for a tubey tone, but maybe this is an impossibility?

Originally Posted by Joshua

I am of no assistance from the technical perspective (as in how or why it works), but I go bass -> TD100 -> IP112/EX112 (with the button engaged for 2 cab operation) and get all I've ever wanted or needed. Tubey goodness? Check. Volume? As much or more at least as compared to the few dedicated bass pres I've tried with it.

Cheers!

[KJung]

For you IP fans, there is a 'floor demo' IP310 (just a couple of dings in the cabinet edge) for sale at a VERY low price at Bass Central. FYI.

[ac3320]

Originally Posted by KJung

For you IP fans, there is a 'floor demo' IP310 (just a couple of dings in the cabinet edge) for sale at a VERY low price at Bass Central. FYI.

i saw that ken! Yeah, too big for me to lug...but i'm sure someone can jump on it. Two of em just went (i think unsold) on ebay for 1000-1200. pretty cheap, as that's what IP112's go for!

[tombowlus]

If you did not know, Jim has discontinued the current IP line, so that means that dealers are more free to "wheel & deal" on the price.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by ac3320

Berg mod? when i crank the TD into the TLA, i can only have the volume on the TLA between 2-3 before clipping. I'd like to be able to run the TD full tilt for a tubey tone, but maybe this is an impossibility?

Two things. First, the TD-100 doesn't really do a "full-tilt tubey tone," at least not if you mean what I think you mean by that comment. It is a more "Hi-Fi" tube tone: very rich, detailed, harmonic, textured, etc, but not gritty/grindy or overdriven. Second, where do you have the input sensitivity knob on the IP set?

Tom.