Sunn 215B Restoration

[ZiggyDude]

I just got a vintage Sunn 215B! It is pretty clean but could use some love to restore it better. Sadly - I don't know what is stock or not when it comes to a few of the items. I did post something like this on the unofficial Sunn forum but traffic is a bit limited there and I was hoping to find some folks that know what needs modded back to stock and what does not. I want to get this ready in time for my gig on Saturday and that includes repainting the white paint as it got a bit yellow. So, crunch time.

Today I took the speakers out and looked about inside. I shot a ton of pics. The ones that fit best I cropped and tried to fit in. With the grill off - this is my starting point.



Wheels
The cab has wheels screwed on the bottom. They are obviously not factory and are coming off. The stock receptacles are still on the side. I bet they are the same size as the old Ampeg and Acoustic. This is good as the Ernie Ball castor set will pop right in. So – that is set.

Rubber Feet
There are no feet on the bottom. Four feet are on the same side as the pop in wheel receptacles. So, my question here – is that correct? Should there be feet on that side? If not I will take them off and put them on the bottom.


Interior Construction.
There is a board – about 6” wide – that runs from the back to front of the cab between the two speakers. Reinforcing the cab I would say. It looks stock – is that so? Apparently it was put on with nails and was loose. The guys that sold it to me used drywall screws through the front of the cab to secure it and also put little blocks of wood, glue, and screws about it to secure it. I will repaint the front so at least the black screws don’t make a toothy grin on the white wood between the two speakers. They also put a few other wood strips to reinforce it – I need look to see if they are required.


Interior Insulation.
White Styrofoam is installed inside the cab on two sides. Vertically on the side across from the port and also the bottom. Fiberglas like insulation is on the back of the cab. There is no insulation on the top of the cab. There is no insulation on any surface touching the port except the bottom of the cab. Once again – how much is that correct?




Hardware.
A piece of one handle is cracked off. If anyone has a spare handle to sell please let me know. The back plate is fairly clean. There is a serial number that looks like “S 08312”. The word “Sunn” has the middle “un” gone. So it looks like “s n”. I wonder how to paint that back!


Speakers.
Two Sunn 145 speakers. One has a white sticker on the magnet and the other a silver. The white one was made in Kentucky and the silver was Oregon. The white sticker one has “0145 08 510 2988” stamped on the magnet. The silver sticker one has nada on the magnet but there is 82-6127 on the inside of the speaker cone. I think that might be same as on the white tag speaker. The white tag speaker also has “510” and 3153” stamped on the sticker. I am curious if one was a replacement speaker and if so which was the original?





Tolex
Pretty good! The back is starting to peal off – I will eventually try to glue it back. Any ideas how are welcome. In the past I found Elmer’s Glue good and use painters tape to hold the tolex in place until it dries. The tape does not get glued on the cab for some reason – comes right off. Any holes from moving the wheels or rubber bumpers I can plug and then cover with this liquid rubber stuff I have. Patches up pretty good.

So, for now, just a few questions. The big ones are about the rubber feet and the insulation that I need info on right away. I play on Saturday and would love to have this all ready to go. Let it be standing tall and looking good for its first job!!!!!

- Ziggy -

[s_mcsleazy]

might i sugest purple tolex

that would be pretty

[stiles72]

Sweet cabinet! Subscribed...

[jlepre]

I used to have this exact same cab back in the 80's. Isn't it funny how the speakers only handle 100W each? That wouldn't cut it with TODAYS amps, but it sure CUT IT back then with a 200Watt Sunn head.

Weird huh?

[ZiggyDude]

Originally Posted by s_mcsleazy

might i sugest purple tolex

that would be pretty

I do have purple tolex on the case for my custom Moser 5 string bass - but will probably leave the stock tolex on this.

Maybe a purple light in the cab to shine on the white wood? Or not.

[ZiggyDude]

Thanks jlepre

Yeah - the 370 I was using on this for practice the other day could easily tear these speakers apart if I wanted it to. I did put modern 600 watt neos in an Acoustic 406 I rehabbed - now it is a monster. So far planning to keep the stock in this cab - but will see.

Hey - since you had this cab. Do you remember if it had rubber feet on the side or just the bottom? Also - did you ever see about the insulation?

[ZiggyDude]

Well - I did a pics search in google and found a few. Some show rubber feet on the side and others do not. But the feet look the same as the ones I have now. (I refuse to believe this is the same cab). But I can tell that the one brace from front to back is original and that it was w/o braces. And - no "Fluffy Stuff" is on the back wall. There was also a Sunn Promo pic from back then that showed the cab on its side - once again suggesting it was supposed to be that way. One step front and one step back! Are there supposed to be rubber duckie feet on one side or two???

Oh pooh!

And no replies from owners. I refuse to believe that this baby is rare. Come on out of the closet nad help out! :-)

[ZiggyDude]

Step 2

After help from folks I think I have enough information to get started. It seems that the rubber feet I have on the long end are original. I guess so you could lay that long port on the floor. The feet surprised me as they are actually quite pristine. They are a pain while loading the rig though – and I noticed that at least one looks like it was hit and is partially knocked crooked. My plans for now are to relocate them to the bottom. They are also quite tall and get the cab higher off the floor than one would normally want - so I might look for lower ones and preserve the pristine feet for a time this stays on display. For now - this guy is going giggin'.

Here is a pic of my starting point. Man – this baby has ugly feet!



Anything mounted with hex head screws that side is going to be massive. It took a ratchet wrench and some good twisting to get them off. By looking at all the sawdust, wood in the tracks of the screws, and the way the tolex is torn up you can really see the damage. It is hard to see in photo - but wood lives in the grooves of the screws.



All four off. Not a pretty sight! I had to pour myself a stiff drink.



An examination of the bottoms showed they came from a little hardware store in Michigan. I am in Pennsylvania. I am curious the story how the cab got here for me to acquire in a Craigslist ad. Was it someone’s Ebay victory? Someone moved? If only it could talk.



OK – can anyone guess what this wood is for? Hey! How did that fluid level go up???



- Ziggy -

[ZiggyDude]

Step 3

OK so now I have an open area. But I also have quarter inch holes through the speaker body. So, we do some measuring (like 3 times over to prevent the “Measure once cut twice” thing). So out comes the miter box and the slow but accurate hack saw. “Rir-un-rir-un-rir-un-rir…” Ugh. But I do get results. In each case I pour mega wood glue into the hole and then drive a round wood dowel into it. This has to be pushed so that it is under the flush line of the cab. A punch helped. For the first one this was a lot of work!


I got better with time and finished the other three – oh that felt good. Finally I get the 16 holes plugged but you can see there is still a lot of damage to the old tolex and wood. Mostly parts of loose tendrils popping up and looking mangy.


The next step was to trim that. This required a variety of tools. The Dremel was good for removing lots of bulk (Still on a miniature level) while the X-Acto blade did a lot of work, If I could only have one tool – it would be the blade – but never far from the sharpening stone that kept it quite deadly. I even tried a chisel. So now what? We got an ugly bottom and lots of torn stuff. Once again the Dremel and blade came out for that. In time the blade was the best tool. In the end all was flat and trim and read to go.

Eventually the wood glue dried and the next step. I spent a huge amount of time with bright lights and magnifying glasses to trim the crap about each plugged hole. Then it was time to fix the loss of the tolex. The can of instant rubber glue was great for this. It is made for dipping things and getting rubberized handles and such. I cut some more off my piece of round ¼ inch stick to stir it. Hey – after all – you never know when you are going to need a rubber coated stick :- ) After much work the bottom of the box looks like this.


Well, I guess that I should have taken a picture after I washed things up, but I did not. However, you saw the cleaned up pic earlier before the rubberizing. A close inspection would of course show what happened – but from a distance it was invisible. Hey – this is just for the bottom of the cab!

So, things are looking pretty good down below. I then go over the tolex of the rest of the cab with the liquid rubber. It dries to the same color and gloss of the tolex and blends in. This way the little pulls and scrapes of the amp are touched up. Not sure how to shoot pics of that – but later I will get it in.

Now the real pain. Waves and waves of unending pain. Getting that !@#$%^ insulation out. Not just the insulation but all the glue, nails, and staples that some “Well Meaning” person put in. I have gone through this before with the 406. I remember the “Snoopy Saying” of “Curse You Red Barron”. I pull some of the fluffy insulation out and later notice my finger feels like it got cut – but I can see no cut. OK – rubber gloves time.


Curse You Red Barron


A variety of tools were required. Curse You Red Barron!


Eventually I got all of the crap out. The kitchen size garbage bag that I put this stuff and only this stuff into. I can promise you I did not “Fluff” the bag to look bigger. CURSE YOU RED BARRON!!!


I was hurrying as I needed to gig the amp that night. We are in no way even close to being done – but I have to get it operational for now. I don’t want the five ugly screw heads on the face plate to show - so a piece of white plastic bandage tape does nicely for now to hide them.

[ZiggyDude]

Yet another return to the thread. I prove to be one minded at times.

OK – time to get ready to roll off and rock. Err – Rock n Roll. Well to do that I need wheels. Here we go! The Ernie Ball (EBMM) wheels sets pop into vintage Acoustic, Ampeg, and now Sunn stuff. Works just great. There is a slight difference in the play regarding when the restraining ring grabs – but not a big deal. Actually – I was quite tempted to pop in the EBMM female retainers. They are so shiny-shiny. It would make the cab glisten in a way. But in a very small way be less “Correct”. If I was restoring a car I would put on an aftermarket shiny bumper if the old chrome was bad. So – what to do here? Feel free to vote. By the way – the pic does not do justice – the EBMM look like a mirror and the old are gray.

Kinda cool how the EBMM product box uses the Sunn colors!!!!!! Must be Instant Karma - maybe it gonna get me. Well - At Least get this Dusty Tune or box.





Now to put the grill back on. The inside of the thing changed color after I vacuumed it!


Then the next issue popped up. It looked like the grill was warped.


But it turns out that it was cracked and someone was a really bad shot at trying to staple it back together. This will be a job for later. Right now I need to get gigging. I pop the grill on and load the expectant cab into the truck and its long awaited debut. Curse You Red Barron…


OK – I’m done. I was about to do other stuff but Mr. Clock said no. (Curse You Mr. Clock!) Pack F-150, drive, arrive, unload, and Roll (no Rockin’) into club. A back up 370 as the primary was just out of the repair shop and though a talented fellow, he was not “Acoustic Experienced” (another story – very dread, very dread). At 45 pounds each that is weight to carry. So, they get a ride on the cab. Like, I like me new wheel deal thingies - like! Yippee!! OK – that was nice. Like wow, that is happening. (Too much 80s yet? – Nah!)


We gig - guitars for this night - I chose a random but "test" selection for da cab.


Sorry for any blurry pics - but this whole thing was shot from the camera phone on my BugDroid. Odd that it was more fuzzy at the end of the night. Curse you Mr. BugDroid!!

OK – after this it gets more tedious (though fun). Plus I am a week behind with this and it is like after 12:30 tonight – so I just gotta quit. Tons of pics shot and stuff done but editing and words not ready to post. It may surprise one – but this takes work – especially when chasing a 3 year old. (Why did they have to have such quick feet and hands? Someone needs revisit the design blueprint on this one :-> ) I hope that at least a few have found this ride fun so far. Very few post backs.

Anyway - I wish best to all.

- Ziggy -

[mikeddd]

I am really enjoying this thread and all the great pics you're posting. I can appreciate the care you're taking in restoring it "back to factory specs." It's time consuming and tedious but the end result is worth it. Thanks for sharing this with the TB community.

[ZiggyDude]

OK - Forget - is this chapter 4 or 5?

At the club the grill is flopping about on the corner since the plastic “Velcro like” piece is missing. The old “Wedge It with a Piece of Bar Coaster” trick worked great. Sadly no gig shots – that would have been nice. Lending out a camera phone never works – don’t even try now.

The job went well. People had fun and so did the Ziggy. The club was a place that requires you to be on the quiet side. On top of that the room has an odd shape and some areas along the right side get a lot of bass while the rest of the room is fairly even with less. You would never know unless you have a wireless. (If you get compulsive on tone – a wireless is required) It did explain customer comments (too quiet or too loud). So – how did it sound? Great if I was standing next to it. A quick summary is that there was a mid range presence that was evenly dispersed across the room in both tone and volume. But the low end quake was limited to only in certain areas. Despite the massive port this was not an earthquake machine. On the other hand it moved enough air that I could be at a reasonable volume on stage and be heard anywhere across the room. Part of this is the tuning of the cab – which some feel is about 60 HZ, maybe down to 45. The tone may not be perfect but I was heard. So, you need to decide how many people can tell the difference.

But this is just one room and that alone a test does not make. I have plans to try this a few more times. The vintage speaker is only rated at 100 watts and was at its limit and edged farting. Considering this is a quiet room I need something that can get a bit more dominent. I have no intention of blowing the vintage Sunn speaker so while gigging the cab I will pop something else in.

If you have any ideas – there is a speaker thread going at
Which to get - Eminence Gamma vs Delta vs Legend 15s


OK – now back to work. Off comes the grill and out the speakers. First I attack the 5 ugly screws. They need to be recessed further so that I can putty over them. A Dremel with a router bit deepens the holes and the screws then replaced.


The old gaskets are shot and range from gone to full thickness. They are surely leaking and possibly rattle prone. Also – ugly and though the speaker covers them I hate just knowing they are there.


It takes a lot of work to get these things off! And a mess – I start to wonder if I should have just left them alone. Leave sleeping doges … Curse you Mr. Speaker Gaskets! Eventually after trying chisels and sand paper – the trusty X-Acto blade works the best. What is interesting is that traces remain. This is because residual parts of the gasket filled sunken areas in the wood and helped smooth it all out.


Now to fill the holes – I tried a couple of types of putty and this stuff worked best. Very fast drying and really easy to sand. I also go after little dents, some ripped up wood, holes from the staple gun that put this together. I found that both the X-Acto blade and a stiff guitar pick do well in forming the stuff. OK – also a shameless plug :-)


All sanded down and ready for the paint. The cab was originally sprayed and that of course has a different look and feel from brushed paint. So, I decide to go the spray route. This was a bit scary as there is the oil over latex or latex over oil based thing going. A search of a really good primer (can pictured) was the answer. I used less than half a can and I really hosed it up good. Needless the say I wanted to do no harm. I taped over all the internal parts and wires. Plastic bagged the long wires. Painter taped that cab from every angle. And now – we have “The Mummy” of bass cabs.


It was an odd day – the Bass Gods smiled upon me and granted 70 degree weather in February so I could paint outside. Carried the cab out (light w/o speakers!) and set to work. Of course that was when the 50 MPH winds expected that night to bring in the coming cold front started. My spray can becomes increasingly disobedient. Curse You Mr. Wind!!!!!!

The primer dries in 15 minutes and I take it to the garage to finish with the overcoat. A couple of days later I pull off the half a roll of tape used and – here she is!!


OK - sorry that is all for now. I am currently caught up in a speaker thing. Also some soul searching on which feet to use. After all - why risk pristine vintage parts to the rigors of club stuff. That just aint right.

Oh - by the way - word of warning. If you painter tape over the white lettering of the Sunn cab - cover it with paper first. The painters tape removed just a hint of white paint. Not enough to do damage - but it did adhere. The red seemed OK - but may as well cover that to. My lesson learned and future advice to you!!!

Best to all,

- Ziggy -

[lowphatbass]

I've got an older Sunn 2x15 cab. The rubber feet on the side of the cab are for stacking two(that's right!)cabs on top of eachother. I took mine off because it's a lot easier to get the cover on and off.

While the red insulation may not have been stock I think that cab needs some kind of insulation. I'm no expert but I can't imagine it came without any.

[Bigjohn]

I used to have the earlier 70's version of that cab (silver fenderish cloth) but it was the same ports on one side - speakers on the other design with those stamped frame square magnet speakers.
Those speakers sound GREAT. That was the best sounding cab with 15's I ever owned.

[ZiggyDude]

Originally Posted by Bigjohn

I used to have the earlier 70's version of that cab (silver fenderish cloth) but it was the same ports on one side - speakers on the other design with those stamped frame square magnet speakers.
Those speakers sound GREAT. That was the best sounding cab with 15's I ever owned.

The speakers do sound great. But they are volume challenged with active basses and high power with EQ turned up. I was very careful to avoid Mr. Speaker Fart. So, I went on a quest to get that sound with greater power handling. I have no intention of putting these speakers in harms way when I gig the thing.

[ZiggyDude]

Hello – well here we go again. It was a really hectic week. Work and also the daily life stuff. Worked late two nights as someone’s server setup was blowing my code in production – at night of course. Yup , I know, it is tough all over for everyone else to.

So, I did the limit for the next gig. Sorry.

The first step was the grill. I will post a couple of older pics just to refresh the memories. Basically – the old grill was cracked and the cause seemed to be a demonic staple gun (You guessed it! – “Curse You Mr. Demonic Staple Gun!!”) The wood for the grill is hewn from a single piece of plywood. Like – cut out a really large donut hole. I guess they had a use for the wood elsewhere. Maybe the combos or something – maybe the boss wanted a coffee table. Well – I have restrung grill cloth from scratch before (the Acoustic 406 grill is a redo) and I was not going to just do it again. So a repair comes first. I guess this is my first short cut? I actually feel kinda bad about that. But – not bad enough :-> After carefully measuring I determined that the grill was suspended from the wood by about 3/8” over much the cab. That was enough room for a brace. So I try glue and steel. (Trivia points – what 80’s movie was driven by the search for “The Secret of Steel”?). It still won’t be right as I am missing part of the plastic Velcro like (not “Like”) speaker holder snap thingie on one corner. But we are approaching squareness for the cab parts now. In wood working – squareness is goodness.





So we pry the stuff out and hope it will not self destruct something. I am actually pretty worried. Why the heck did some guy deploy the Demonic Staple Gun? There must have been some reason. Unless he was totally buzzed or something. But even then it seems like a lot of work to pry off a grill just to shoot a few staple.



I try a few ways to get glue into the deep crack. The injection method was OK (water plus glue) – but once again spackling with e A-Acto blade did the best. If you ever do this type of thing – make sure you have an X-Acto #1 blade.



So now we add the real deal. I was careful to drill holes first before putting the screws in . They are self tapping but I don’t trust the wood. It was really soft. I suspect this thing lived in a moist place for some time. I actually had to back out the screws and add wood glue inside and redo the drill. The material was just coming soft. I don’t think it was the fault of Sunn so much as an abused childhood before the thing got to me. But it avoids making a plywood donut hole. Please note that the screws are not all the way flush with the metal. The wood would not allow the extra torque. I really hope I don’ have to come back here.



We pop the grill on and mucho better. After I get the plastic grill holder what you call it thingie inside I should be square. Square is goo. Yeah – we been there.

OK – now we need speakers. Strange that we should need fill the holes of the beast. I am not going to put the stock speakers in harms way as they farted out last job. A set of 600 watt Carvin neos will be the test client. I took them out of the Acoustic 406 – these have not been tested in battle yet. From the Carvin forum these are made by Celestion which does not give Ziggy the Bass Player confidence. “Dang – Aint Those Mawschaul Speakas?” I can say that they sounded good in the 406. I had the mighty Acoustic 370 up to 4 with the bass boosted and with an active bass. To cut to the quick – they sounded pretty good and they can handle some abuse. They took power that would have shredded the stock speakers (not a fair fight). What I am trying to say here is that I want to give the cab a fair test in a new world of high power heads, active basses, and of course we are not giving it PA support.



OK – off to the gig. This is actually an odd room. They made a basement into a club. We are talking bass player doom and glee all in one. Hard walls, tiled floors, but also an odd shape. Not a place for extreme volume but you can get loud enough for fun (then stop). Since the place is so hard (surfaced) I actually have seen a little 1x15 or 4x10 cabs fill the place. A place forth small stuff to pretend to be big. So – it is a place that small amps can roam and fill – though at the resulting loss of granularity in tone is noteworthy if you care. The big box still wins in this place like always – you just need be really careful with the volume dial. Big time on that. Train wreck if you don’t.

Toys for the night. I had the rhythm intro of “Dr Feel Good” going through my head all day and I could not stop myself – I took the Nikki Sixx bass out tonight. It photographs lousy. Stealth paint.

The cab did well – but I was very frustrated at a sudden drop off on the ultra low end. Also – if I got to aggressive I could still make the speakers fart. It took more work, but I could do it. I gotta work on this.

Somehow the camera phone would not take a pic of that black bass!

[mikeddd]

Looking good, man! I really dig your collection of 80's basses. Your perceived loss of low-end might be attributable to the room, no? This was with the replacement speakers? How well-matched are those speakers to that cab?

[lowphatbass]

I think putting some kind of sound absorbing material(foam, etc.) inside the box will extend the low end, and may even decrease fartness a little.

[ZiggyDude]

Rubber Feet

Well – time to decide what to do about the feet. The original ones were on the side and whoever put those wheels on removed the bottom ones. The four feet I have look very nice – almost mint. One had a bent screw inside from sometime in it’s previous life the cab took a shot while loading. Actually, I was thinking about removing the side feet just for that reason. I was not planning to set the cab sideways when I use it. So, no real need for it.

We all know what happens to the rubber feet on cabs when they are gigged. They are simply no match for the gravel in parking lots, dragged over floors, bumped, bashed, bounced, whatever. In fact during the limited use I have had with the cab I could see some very faint impressions from the gravel. So, the feet come off and go in a carefully labeled parts bag in case the cab ever becomes a museum piece.

So, I have two choices. The original foot is also pictured.




These are both from Antique Electronics Supply. I was thinking that the shorter one would be nice as it will get the cab closer to the ground and help with low end bass response some. The other foot is a twit taller than the original and a pretty good replacement. The shorter one could also be put on the side of the cab and not be too much of an obstruction while loading the cab – so that has merit.

Unfortunately the brass ring in the short one is too small for the screws that the other two feet use. I am not going to drill new holes. I guess I could plug the existing and then screw in the smaller screws into the same spot. If anyone later wanted to put the original feet back on it would be easy to enlarge the hole a bit and just put them on. So, I find myself in that state where you just can’t make a decision. Take the easy road and put the new big ones on or get into a lot more work. Just for feet? Actually – I hear some people are really into feet. I never understood the obsession personally. An old story I heard once way back comes to mind - but nobody here would be interested.

To pass the time I instead start on the screw holes for the two speakers. They are of course wood and a few have stripped out. I take my time and carefully drip small amounts of wood glue in the holes. You can’t go too fast or it just drips out the other side. Just a little at a time and keep working all the holes while the others dry up a bit and get tacky. As I am working the glue on my cardboard pallet also gets thicker and makes the job easier.



After a couple of days I will repeat the procedure on any holes that look large still. Also – I will drill out any holes that may looked very much filled. The glue can actually be stronger than the wood. So, I will treat them like a fresh install.

Looking back I should have done this before I painted the front with the fresh coat of white. But I was in a hurry to get the cab gig ready and I did not realize how bad some of the holes are. And, I have been pulling speakers in and out of this quite a bit lately and that has also loosened up the holes some.

By the way – do NOT put the screws back in while the glue is wet! At least not if you plan on taking them out someday. I did that once repairing the guitar strap button on my EB3. One day I wanted to take the strap off and wound up taking the bass to a machine shop where they sheared off the top of the screw and drilled it out. Not a pretty site and a real pain in the butt!

Well – after this I have another trip to addressing the tolex. It looks nice but I would like to make it nicer. I saw on another refurb thread that someone had used show polish and then an Armor-All like treatment. The shoe polish caught me off guard. Has anyone tried this? What are the pros and cons?

Oh – and I still need decide on them thar feet!!!!! Curse You Mr. Rubber Foot Demon!

[ZiggyDude]

Oh - I meant to ask. When tolex corners and edges starts to peal up and turns hard. How do you soften it so it can be pushed back down and glued?