Sunn Amp

[TL08]

Hello all,

I'm new to the forum, as well as being new to bass amps/cabs.

Back Story:
I am setting up a doom-metal rig for my guitar (which I tune
extremely low, so that it sounds like a bass). For my rig,
I wanted to use something that could pick up on the lows
so i turned to Sunn amps.


Problem:
I found this amp online for sale (see picture), and was wondering what kind of amp it actually was. The owner is
unable to identify the ohms and watts that it can handle...
He believes it has duel 15'' speakers and is from the mid to
late 70's, however thats all he seems to know...(he says that
there is no model designation on the cab)


I come to you, knowledgeable bass players, because
I don't know much about bass amps or cabs... Do you know
what the cab could be? .... Maybe how I could go about
finding out what it is? (ive already poured through a ton
of sunn sites, however my lack of knowledge in amplification
inhibits me from getting much out of it).... What kind of
speakers should i expect to find in side of the cab? ....
What kind of speakers would i want to find inside the cab...?


This leads me to my next question.... what makes a good bass
cab? My price range in bellow 1000 for a cab and a head,
and i would like to be able to do live shows. Would this cab
be able to handle that? What kind of head would be good?
How much would you pay for a cab like this? When buying it,
what kind of things should i watch out for/ what are red flags
that i should spot before i throw the money down for this?



Any answers to any of these questions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

[Deluge Of Sound]

You can do a lot better bang for buck than old Sunn cabs.

We just had a thread like this (doom rig) over in effects, I'll see if I can dig it up.
EDIT:
Found it-lots of rig info, although it started out as a pedal discussion:
For Drone and Doom Metal?

[TL08]

Thanks for the link! I checked it out and it helped a bit....
any 15's i should keep in mind? This dude wants 300 for the
cab... any other cheap cabs that do the same or better that
i should also look into?

[D.M.N.]

I actually looked at this listing the other day. It appears to be one of the smaller Sunn cabs, could be a 200s or Sorado. The Sorado was the less expensive version, with circular ports and most originally came with "Sunn Tranducers". The 200s had a horizontal rectangle port that was called a "rear-loading folded horn" (wasn't actually a folded horn). It came with JBL D-140s. These cabs were made during the late 60s to early 70s, and built in a fashion similar to tanks. Can really take a beating. If it's the 200s with original D140s, they only handle about 60w (I believe), but you could probably sell them for a decent price. I'd say that $300 is okay, but if you go ahead, definitely haggle with the dude. If you want some good thoughts on Sunn gear, hit up the Sunn Forums. Lots of Doom guys over there too.

[TL08]

Wow thanks a ton DMN! Yeah I've been tryin to get involved with sum other forums about this doom rig, but have yet to receive any responses from any of them...

D-140's any good? Havent had a chance to look into em yet... but i will

Is 60w gonna be enough for my drummer and I to be doin sum live ****, or should
i already start lookin for another cab? Also, I dont know much about ohm's ... I know
they have a lot to do with making sure that amps and cab ares compatible with one
another (and i will research this topic more when i have the chance) but what kinda
ohm's should i be lookin to purchase?

How "cheap" are sorado or 200s? Not like price, but like quality.... I may be poor,
but i dont wanna go blowin my money on a **** cab....


As I said before, I'm open to other cab ideas. I know that Sunns are becoming more
and more overpriced, so any other ideas of cabs are welcome.

[Mr. Foxen]

If you are playing guitar, and you have a bass player, oldschool bass stuff is probably the thing to have, otherwise you'll swamp the bassist. Doom guitar tends to do this anyway, but newer bass cabs can do the real sub bass lows and still have a place. Really, an old 2x15 is gonna give plenty of bottom, even if you don't have a bass player.

This is a good forum for Doom gear: http://www.foreverdoomed.com/forums/viewforum.php?f=22

[TL08]

Thanks Foxen, and yes I've lurked DFFD for a while and i'm currently waiting for the admin
to activate my account there.

Its just me and a drummer... so swampin is not gonna be a problem here. I thought that old was best route to go in rig gear since a lot of the bands i listen to use that kinda gear (Sunn, Sleep, earth, EW, etc)

The more i look at the wattage on this cab, the more i wonder if it will do for live ****.... Does this cab have the potential to be
louder? (is it easily compatible with other easily findable&cheap amps/cabs)


Great advice all, keep it comin


To be more explicit, the sound im going for is somewhere between Sunn and Sleep.... Probably more like thorrs hammer

[D.M.N.]

Well, since you're playing guitar, D140s might be okay. The cab would be a 120w probably, idk what amp you're using, but most likely for guitar no more than a 100w, so you should be alright. Nice thing is, the cab is probably wired to 16 ohms (or 4 ohms, but that was a special order), which is rather inconvenient for modern bass amps, but good if you're using a guitar amp.
I'm sorry, when I said cheap, I didn't mean that they were cheap equipment back then. The 2000s, which was a pro rig, was up around $2000 in 1969. There were cars cheaper than that on the market then. Sunn gear is all pretty high quality. The Sorado just had less expensive speakers and an easier to build design. Sunn gear was used by a lot of touring guys then: John Entwistle, Noel Redding, Mountain. It's quality stuff, and even though it's 40 or so years old, it's not likely to be $h!ting out on you anytime soon.

As far as other gear, old Peavey stuff is solid, and cheap (price-wise). Maybe some Acoustic, or if you can find it, Earth Research (knock off peavey). Mr. Foxen linked a great forum. Those guys are pretty helpful, and probably have more knowledge concerning Guitar Doom gear.

[TL08]

Thanks for the info DMN! The more i read about these 200s and Sorado's the more i hear things like "it sounds better for basses than guitars..." and "not loud enough (~60)"

Still sitting on the fence about buying the cab...

I haven't chosen a head yet for the rig... so any advice on that is also appreciated.

Any more advice on this cab or my future rig is greatly appreciated. Thanks all

[D.M.N.]

Yeah, if you want to get a Sunn cab, your better bet is probably one of the 412s (which come in an identical cab), or a 612, which is a gargantuan cab. Those were made for guitar, so they would handle more watts and probably sound better. Another cab option I forgot to mention was Emperor. There's a big forum on them here.

For the head, what are you going for? Maybe a Model T, or Ampeg V4, Sound City, Orange OR120 or maybe a new head, Laney Klipp or Supergroup, Sovtek, stuff like that. But this stuff is better discussed on ForeverDoomed, seeing as this is a discussion about guitar gear

[TL08]

Thanks DMN, but I dont know if those any of those are in my price range

I'm trying to keep the amp+cabs under $1000 all together



Those 412s and 612's have the "sunn transducers", does that mean that i should be aimin for those speakers instead of the JBL's? I am tuneing really low, so its not like im playing Classic rock (which i believe sunn "guitar" amps were made for)--so i figured that the speakers i would be looking for would be old speakers that were originally made for basses

I apologize for my extremely limited knowledge in this area, so please feel free to correct me if i am wrong



Ive hunted around the doom forum's as well as sunn forums, and none of them have addressed my problem as well as talkbass has. (i am still in the process of having my account activated on doomedforever forum so that i can post more specifics about my rig there too)

Thanks all

[theavondon]

Well, I gig regularly with a cab like that and my Coliseum 880. Never, ever had any problems with not being heard. In fact, I'm often told I'm too loud. And, the bands I play in aren't quite timid with the volume. I used this cab and cut through three different drummers in a venue made for 600 people. No mics. So, err, ahh, YMMV. Also, I occasionally tune to drop A, and the cab takes it like a champ.

[Mr. Foxen]

Remember Sunn O))) the band don't put that much low through their rig, they are big enough to have a PA to do the epic bottom end. Their stage volume is very loud, but it isn't necessarily as bottomy as you hear out front. Those cabs are loaded with vintage speakers, so they need lots of them to deal with the power coming from those heads, as they run them cranked for power section drive.

Modern bass cabs have plenty in common with PA subs, so they are where to go for the real low end.