SVT-7 Pro Into 410hlf

The WideBody · #1 10-30-2011, 09:05 AM

i am interested in the 410hlf. i am considering the pf500/350 or svt-7 pro. the latter being my preference, but budget might have the final say. i see the specs on the cab have it listed at 400watts. either the pf500 or the svt-7 pro claim to put out more than that, however upon a site search, i have read about people using either of these combos successfully. i am not too gear-techie, but why does this work when it seems like it shouldn't.

thanks for your input.

cableguy · #2 10-30-2011, 09:10 AM

If budget is an issue go with the PF-500. It will sound great. I've heard some people prefer the 7Pro and if you have the extra cash I might get that. Just use you're ears. If the speakers are farting out or sound bad you may be pushing it too much.

Joe Louvar · #3 10-30-2011, 09:14 AM

Maybe this will help shed some light on the subject for you ~

Picking the right speakers for your bass amplifier.

Over powering a speaker can damage it and a impedance mismatch can damaged an amplifier. See Eminence‘s webpage Understanding Loudspeaker Data | Eminence Speaker and look under “POWER HANDLING”. And Myers Sound “Making Sense of Amplifier Power Ratings” Making Sense of Amplifier Power Ratings

Power - the ideal situation is to choose a loudspeaker that has the capability of handling more power than you can provide lending some headroom and insurance against thermal failure.” If you don’t know how much power a speaker cab can handle, slowly turn up the bass amp volume until the speaker starts to sound bad, then turn down the bass or volume until it sounds good.

Ohms - make sure the speaker cab impedance meets the bass amp requirements. Look on the back of your bass amp and note the required speaker load (ohms) and make sure the impedances of your speakers match. See Wiring Diagrams | Eminence Speaker

Stacking Speakers - about 3dB is considered the least amount of SPL gain the human ear can hear and it takes about 10dB to double the volume (SPL). See dB: What is a decibel? If you have a 100 watt amp with one 12" speaker and you add another 12" speaker you will get the a 3dB increase. You would have the same SPL as a 200 watt amp with one 12" speaker. To get the next 3dB increase you need to double the speakers again so you would need four 12" speakers. Having 4 speakers will give you a 6dB increase in SPL compared to 1 speaker. Then it gets more complex. If you double the 4 speakers to 8 speakers there isn’t a 9dB increase in SPL as compared to one speaker like you’d think, instead you only a 6dB increase compared to one speaker because phase cancellation comes into play. The distance between the speakers causes the sound to reach your ears from the speakers at a different time and this has the effect of canceling some sound so more speakers are better up to a point. Drivers, enclosures, power, impedance, etc all play a role in the SPL. There is no perfect bass speaker enclosure because all loudspeaker enclosures are a compromise of design trade-offs. So just buy speakers you like the sound of and make sure they meet your bass amp impedance requirements. Start with the volume off and slowly turn it up to the desired volume level or until the speakers start to sound bad - then turn down the bass or volume until it sounds good.

The WideBody · #4 10-30-2011, 09:26 AM

thanks for the quick responses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cableguy

If budget is an issue go with the PF-500. It will sound great. I've heard some people prefer the 7Pro and if you have the extra cash I might get that. Just use you're ears. If the speakers are farting out or sound bad you may be pushing it too much.

the pf500 is certainly on the short list, however, even that amp's specs seem capable of overpowering the 410hlf. that is why i have the pf350 on the short list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Louvar

Maybe this will help shed some light on the subject for you ~

Picking the right speakers for your bass amplifier.

Over powering a speaker can damage it and a impedance mismatch can damaged an amplifier.

thanks for posting this. i do understand this much. which led me to my original question - why does this work when is seems like is shouldn't.

do these people disregard the specs? do they not turn the amp up?

BassBob1 · #5 10-30-2011, 09:32 AM

I run a 7 pro into a 410hlf with no problems. No speaker farting or anything like that and it gets more than loud enough for any situation I have ever found myself in. Including large outdoor gigs with no PA support. It is perfectly ok to have more power than your cab can handle, yes you risk speaker damage so don't crank it but you should be able to hear if you are pushing the speakers too hard.

cableguy · #6 10-30-2011, 09:34 AM

You don't have to always max out your amp. It's nice to have extra headroom left. Get a good tone and use your volume knob. The PF-500 will get plenty loud. The 7Pro will sound great as well. If you can play both pick the one the you like best and can afford.

The WideBody · #7 10-30-2011, 09:37 AM

did some more searching...

it seems that if i want the SVT-7 Pro, i would have to go with the PN-410HLF - listed at 850 watts at 8 ohms. the specs on the Pro say 600 watts output at 8 Ohms. That would be the combo for sure, but that cabinet new is quite expensive, much more expensive than even the amp brand new.

might just go with the PF350 into the regular 410HLF.

more input is appreciated.

thanks.

The WideBody · #8 10-30-2011, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassBob1

It is perfectly ok to have more power than your cab can handle, yes you risk speaker damage so don't crank it but you should be able to hear if you are pushing the speakers too hard.

i am sure that i would never have to turn up that loud. i am just worried about accidentally ruining the speakers.

cableguy · #9 10-30-2011, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The WideBody

did some more searching...

it seems that if i want the SVT-7 Pro, i would have to go with the PN-410HLF - listed at 850 watts at 8 ohms. the specs on the Pro say 600 watts output at 8 Ohms. That would be the combo for sure, but that cabinet new is quite expensive, much more expensive than even the amp brand new.

might just go with the PF350 into the regular 410HLF.

more input is appreciated.

thanks.

Don't worry so much about the numbers. Any of those amps into the 410HLF will sound good. If the PF350 is all you can afford now it will work. And it will make a great back-up head in the future when you upgrade. If you can swing the extra $100 go with the PF-500. It has a few more EQ options that may help you get the sound you're looking for. Good luck.

BassBob1 · #10 10-30-2011, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The WideBody

it seems that if i want the SVT-7 Pro, i would have to go with the PN-410HLF

not so, the classic 410hlf will handle the 7 pro like a champ. Just don't max it out. And believe me there's no reason for you to crank it.

BassBob1 · #11 10-30-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The WideBody

i am sure that i would never have to turn up that loud. i am just worried about accidentally ruining the speakers.

Unless you accidentally max the gain and master and then play through it you should be fine. You sound a little paranoid about it and if you are really that worried, go for the PF 500, it apparently sounds the closest to the 7pro.

Joe Louvar · #12 10-30-2011, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The WideBody

thanks for posting this. i do understand this much. which led me to my original question - why does this work when is seems like is shouldn't.

do these people disregard the specs? do they not turn the amp up?

You’re welcome. Yeah, it works because they don’t overdrive the speakers by turning up the volume too high - but with the right speakers you should be able to really crank up the power and get really loud!!!

The WideBody · #13 10-30-2011, 10:33 AM

thanks to all that responded.

given my budget, which will be determined when i sell my current rig - a sf bassman50 with matching 2x15 cabinet. the proceeds will go towards the new rig.

it seems that i will be able to get into a regular hlf and either of the pf's for less than $1K. heck maybe i can find something used and maximize my dollars - now wouldn't that be special.

lokikallas · #14 10-30-2011, 11:04 AM

My advice is to find a used 410hlf. A pf500 is good, but if you can afford the 7 get it and it will be the last amp you own. As long as you know not to turn up the master volume all the way you'll be fine with the extra wattage. Don't worry about that.

bassguy72 · #15 10-30-2011, 12:29 PM

I second the advice about the 7 pro........also if u can afford the pn410 it is definitely worth it.......believe me I know

JimmyM · #16 10-30-2011, 03:20 PM

You sound like you have plenty of common sense to use the 7 Pro in a way that won't blow up the 410hlf. I love the PF heads and have a PF350 but I make no secret about thinking the 7 Pro is the best sounding ss or hybrid head I've ever played. I'm just holding out for a lower wattage hybrid

The WideBody · #17 10-31-2011, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassguy72

I second the advice about the 7 pro........also if u can afford the pn410 it is definitely worth it.......believe me I know

anybody experience both?

outside of the power handling capabilities, is there a big tonal difference. they seem to depreciate at the same rate, but given that the pn is twice the retail cost new, the actual dollar amounts of depreciate is twice as well. i have seen the regular 410-hlf for as low as $300-400, and the pn410-hlf as low as $700-800.

rummy · #18 10-31-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cableguy

Don't worry so much about the numbers.

+1

I have my SVT 7 Pro mated with the SVT 410HE which is rated at 500W.

At home, I use that same amp with a Aguilar GS112, which is rated at 200W.

Use your ears.

The WideBody · #19 10-31-2011, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rummy

Use your ears.

this bit of advice has come up a couple of times during this thread. i feel better about feeding the 410-hlf with the svt-7 pro.

i just didn't know if there was a sweet spot in the amp like on tube amps. even my sf bassman gets a little grit, but you have to get up to around 7 or 8 to get it. at lower volumes, i use my badder bass monkey. i was afraid that to get into the 'sweet spot' i would be wrecking the speakers. is this the case, can you get decent grind at lower levels?

thanks for everyone's input.

az

will33 · #20 10-31-2011, 03:45 PM

With SS amps that turning it up to the sweet spot thing isn't so much the case unless it has some sort of tube amp emulation stuff built in. On some of them, running the gain higher on the front end can get more tube flavor from the pre but for the most part, master volume is just that, more volume, they don't sound too good nearing breakup, it's not a musical sounding distortion.

The 410hlf does like to be fed some power though.