SVT-CL too loud !

Alice Rain · #1 03-06-2011, 09:42 AM

Hey guys,

I've been playing regularly for few years with my rig (ampeg svt-cl head and 410-hlf cab), we've been playing everywhere, from small crap holes to huge open air festivals and always the same problem ... My amp is too loud !

For too loud I obviously mean that the svt-cl start working properly between 3 and 5-6 ( the more volume the better obviously ) and I probably never ever played over 2 and half without the soundguy running on the stage with the expression : are u out of your mind ?

I really like that head, goes really well with my Thunderbird and I really don't like SS, not much personality IMO.
I was reading something about taking of valves or someone told me about something I can put between head and cab so I can push the volume without an insane output ( don't remember the name tho )

Any of you guys ?

logicman69 · #2 03-06-2011, 09:47 AM

You can use a Power Soak inbetween a tube head and a cab. THD makes a couple versions of the Hot Plate, depending on your Ohm Rating for the cab (there probibly are other companies that make selectable ohm ratings). This should help...

Or you could always tell the soundguy to stop being a little whinny b**#h. :-)

christw · #3 03-06-2011, 09:48 AM

You were thinking of power attenuators which aren't made in high enough powers to take an SVT into grind. If you're going to pull output valves, you're going to need to compensate for that with a different impedance of cab or using a different transformer tap. Someone else can cover that base.

Really though... what's the need to crank the crap out of it? To get it dirty? The soundguy is governing what's out front anyways so no matter how cool you think it sounds on stage, he might've made it tinny garbage or almighty goodness out front. Stay on his good side. If you want cranked SVT tone, look into some of the Sansamp offerings.

mpdd · #4 03-06-2011, 09:55 AM

i just bought a used mesa d180 and i play it through a vintage marshall 115, the whole svt thing seemed a little insane for my needs, you might want to try a vt pedal like christw hinted at

meatwad · #5 03-06-2011, 10:02 AM

Even though the thought may have not crossed your mind, KEEP THE SVT! Also, keep it intact just as God intended it to be - with SIX output tubes. The CL has a Gain and Master knob, try cranking the Gain a bit more and pull back on the master. I understand this isn't the same as cooking the output, but it helps to get away from the cleaner side of this fantastic head. Also, you can bias the output tubes hotter, but tube life is greatly reduced.

I haven't tried one myself, but many great things have been said about the VT BASS giving a cranked SVT sound without disemboweling anybody.

Alice Rain · #6 03-06-2011, 10:04 AM

Yeah it's about the gritty full bodied sound you have when you push it. I'm not talkin about cranking the hell out of it, I'm talkin about goi to 3 out of 10... 11 in same cases lol
I'm using a boss overdrive at the moment to compensate, which is quite good but the sound of saturated valves is something else

Jazz Ad · #7 03-06-2011, 10:08 AM

No power plate is powerful enough to handle a SVT.
They were designed for stadiums mind you, so if you play bars they're not exactly the best fit.
You could always try a V4-B.

Alice Rain · #8 03-06-2011, 10:09 AM

Done the bias thing, I'm on the limite already.
I need flaming valves with half the volume

prd004 · #9 03-06-2011, 10:09 AM

It is what it is, The SVT CL is meant to be loud. The original SVT's were designed for an era where guitarists were playing through half stacks and drummers were bashing away on mamoth kits. If you weren't extremely loud, you weren't going to be heard.

That's not the case these days, and in my opinion, the SVT CL is too much amp for small bars and clubs.

christw · #10 03-06-2011, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alice Rain

Done the bias thing, I'm on the limite already.
I need flaming valves with half the volume

Have you considered something like a V4B with two power tubes pulled and micing the cabinets (if you have a soundguy who will still talk to you)?

Less expensive solution: Tech 21 Bass VT. Take it from a guy who has dimed an SVT-II more than once. It is a good imitation.

BassmanPaul · #11 03-06-2011, 10:37 AM

It's never a good idea to pull output tubes from any tube amp unless you can adjust the load to compensate. With a six tube output stage like the SVT that compensation is virtually impossible to achieve.

If the OP requires saturating the output stage, I too would suggest he try a V4 which will saturate at about a third of the output of the SVT.

MOTORHEADBANGER · #12 03-06-2011, 11:03 AM

I've borrowed SVT's for shows, and I agree that most of the time they are OVERKILL. I've found the cheapest solution is to get a VT BASS and run that through the SVT. It will give you that awesome growl of a dimed SVT without killing half of the listeners. Plus running it through an actual SVT will give that characteristic warm thick goodness that only real tubes can give. A best of both worlds.

Calaverasgrande · #13 03-06-2011, 11:18 AM

how about a 2x10 or a single 15" instead of the 4x10? Less efficient cabs means you have to turn up the amp to get equal volume that you would with the 4x10.
What kind of music do you play? If a sound guy ever tells me to turn down I tell them to tak me out of the PA and let me worry about my amp. I simply don't think it is the sound guys place to tell a muscian what to do. Sound engineers facilitate the amplification of the band, not the arrangement or performance, just what the audience hears. In my 10 years of sound-manning I never told a bassist to turn down. Guitarist maybe.
Do you turn up much louder than at practice?

Alice Rain · #14 03-06-2011, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calaverasgrande

how about a 2x10 or a single 15" instead of the 4x10? Less efficient cabs means you have to turn up the amp to get equal volume that you would with the 4x10.
What kind of music do you play? If a sound guy ever tells me to turn down I tell them to tak me out of the PA and let me worry about my amp. I simply don't think it is the sound guys place to tell a muscian what to do. Sound engineers facilitate the amplification of the band, not the arrangement or performance, just what the audience hears. In my 10 years of sound-manning I never told a bassist to turn down. Guitarist maybe.
Do you turn up much louder than at practice?

I don't think a different cab is the solution tho as I'm pretty happy with mine and running thru a "worse" cab doesn't sound too much of a solution lol.
I'm in a Hard Rock band, King Lizard (check it out

, we are quite loud, my guitarist is a typical Rock guitarist and my drummer is an animal.
I know, I hate when they tell you to turn down but if you are louder than the PA there's no really point of having one apart for vocals.
The VT Bass pedal sounds good as I use already a bit of overdrive for my sound

Whothehell1313 · #15 03-06-2011, 11:31 AM

Play bigger bars and festivals.

If the venue doesn't have a "noise ordinance vioation" citation by the end of your show, then you weren't loud enough.

Calaverasgrande · #16 03-06-2011, 11:35 AM

Honestly, if you are rock band as you describe I really cant imagine you are too loud. I did sound for years and saw many SVT full stacks that were quite loud but rarely too loud. They throw out a lot of low mid, which can obliterate your kick drum sound. Thats why we turn up the treble on the kick drum to maintain definition. As far as blowing away the PA, they must not have very impressive PA gear if a 300 watt amp thru a 4x10 can blow it away. Maybe this is my Punk/Hardcore/Metal background talking but I would have a problem with a sound guy telling me to turn down with said rig. That is what I would consider a MINIMUM rig for many shows. Especially outside!
It does occur to me that you may be jacking up the drums for the sound guy if you are right on top of the drums? Otherwise I would dismiss any such suggestions with a dirty look and telling him to worry about his/her job, and I will worry about mine.

fourstringburn · #17 03-06-2011, 11:35 AM

Sounds like over-exaggeration of Laws of physics about low frequencies overpowering highs. 300 watts and 4-10's isn't going to do it...get real!

stiles72 · #18 03-06-2011, 11:41 AM

Unless your bandmates onstage are telling you they can't hear themselves over you, then I'd tell the Soundguy to deal with it. That's just me. I'm used to dealing with Soundmen who have an aversion to having bass in the mix, and when they do want it to sound clicky and boinky instead of a big warm round tone. All of them hate running sound for me except one. He used to be a bass player...

prd004 · #19 03-06-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stiles72

Unless your bandmates onstage are telling you they can't hear themselves over you, then I'd tell the Soundguy to deal with it. That's just me. I'm used to dealing with Soundmen who have an aversion to having bass in the mix, and when they do want it to sound clicky and boinky instead of a big warm round tone. All of them hate running sound for me except one. He used to be a bass player...

Just one reason why bass players make the best soundmen! Bassists by nature tend to focus on the whole production. A lot of guitarists, keyboardists, whatever think in tunnel vision on how the guitar, or piano sound.

seamonkey · #20 03-06-2011, 12:22 PM

You might want to check that your amp has all the field updates. Seems some early ones shipped without the clipping diodes.
http://www.amparchives.com/Amp%20Arc...s/0738_001.pdf

If your amp is missing these, you could quickly wire some up in the effects, send/return. Diodes "Soft Clip" in case you're worried.

Silicon diodes trip at .7 V,
You can buy Germanium diodes to clip at lower voltages around .3v
http://www.web-tronics.com/1n34.html

A set of cables wire with different diodes could help for different volume levels.

Asymmetrical clipping always produces "Even Harmonics" so if you wire in just one diode to clip only on one have the signal you will increase Even Harmonics - if that's what you like. Most people will find they like odd harmonics for the powerful rich harmonics sound.